Atheism Plus/Free Thought Blogs (FTB)

[Amadanb]

Okay, I'll bite. I'm Amadan over at A+. (Apparently someone has already registered here as Amadan. Whoever that is, it isn't me.)

So, why do y'all (or some of you, anyway) hate A+ so much? The A+ board certainly has it's share of difficult personalities and I definitely don't agree with everything everyone says over there, but I'm sure that's true here too. I don't see what is objectionable about their core beliefs, and I think this "Anyone who disagrees gets banned" argument is greatly exaggerated.

I am not trolling and I have no intention of acting in bad faith on either board. So let's have it.

 

[RandFan]

Okay, I'll bite. I'm Amadan over at A+. (Apparently someone has already registered here as Amadan. Whoever that is, it isn't me.)

So, why do y'all (or some of you, anyway) hate A+ so much? The A+ board certainly has it's share of difficult personalities and I definitely don't agree with everything everyone says over there, but I'm sure that's true here too. I don't see what is objectionable about their core beliefs, and I think this "Anyone who disagrees gets banned" argument is greatly exaggerated.

I am not trolling and I have no intention of acting in bad faith on either board. So let's have it.

Let me be the first to welcome you Amadan. And thanks.

 

[AvalonXQ]

Atheism Plus

I don't see what is objectionable about their core beliefs, and I think this "Anyone who disagrees gets banned" argument is greatly exaggerated.

Can you please point to a counterexample - someone who has expressed significant disagreement with the A+ groupthink but has not been banned?
Links to particular posts/threads would be helpful.

 

[Stout]

Hi Amadan

Some of us highly value the free exchange of ideas without having to worry that any of those ideas may "offend" someone and have that taking of offense be backed up by a moderator who's more than willing to ban on the basis of a poster having the the wrong opinion.

Yea, it's the freeze peach idea that they all seem to hate over at A+. Just look at that limerick thread and tell me that's not about the stupidest thing you've read anywhere.

At heart Aplussers are bullies although they'll never admit it. Yea, sure they had some rough times, we all had rough times only most of us don't go around using those rough times as an excuse to "get back" at the society that they feel didn't meet their needs.

The safe space idea is the only way Aplussers can function as in the real world that sort of behaviour would be called out, Just look at the demand for a vegan diet with an absurd amount of limitations issued by a poster today. Nobody will be able to meet that challenge except for stating the obvious beans, rice and a bottle of drugstore vitamins, easy peasy and cheap like dirt.

But no Aplussers want to discuss their various issues with food and get into how much difficulty they have coping with something as simple as eating.

Or....10 pages of bickering about the secret space. One post saying that, yes the secret space does exist but it's only for discussing survivors of a certain type of abuse and so far *you* haven't made any sort of reference to having suffered that sort of abuse. Once again easy peasy.

 

[appalling]

Can you please point to a counterexample - someone who has expressed significant disagreement with the A+ groupthink but has not been banned?
Links to particular posts/threads would be helpful.

As a new JREFer, who are the best examples who have expressed significant disagreement with JREF who aren't banned?

 

[AvalonXQ]

Atheism Plus

As a new JREFer, who are the best examples who have expressed significant disagreement with JREF who aren't banned?

They're all over! The forum has creationists, 9/11 truthers, UFOlogists, Bigfoot believers, holocaust deniers, defenders of psychics... Basically for any position the JREF holds, you can find forum members who argue the opposite without being banned.

 

[Stout]

As a new JREFer, who are the best examples who have expressed significant disagreement with JREF who aren't banned?

It's Really difficult to get banned here, really difficult. There's no such thing as disagreeing with the totalitarian state like there is over at A+

However

You're free to get everything you post challenged.

 

[Amadanb]

Can you please point to a counterexample - someone who has expressed significant disagreement with the A+ groupthink but has not been banned?
Links to particular posts/threads would be helpful.

I have disagreed with people (including mods) on several occasions and not been banned. What are some examples of A+ "groupthink" that you think people are not allowed to disagree with? There are definitely opinions that will not be received well, but they make no bones about their SJ stance. Yet people have come in with anti-SJ bromides and not been banned (immediately) though they were told to knock it off and then banned when they wouldn't.

Do you have to tread more carefully there than other places? Yeah, and I have mixed feelings about the viability of "safe spaces," but it seems to me that most of the people who have been banned were being jerks if not outright trolls, not coming in good faith.

I can understand finding A+ frustrating and not for you - I feel that way myself sometimes. But they are not evil, bad, stupid (mostly) or hurting anyone, so why the excessive vitriol directed at them?

 

[AvalonXQ]

Atheism Plus

I can understand finding A+ frustrating and not for you - I feel that way myself sometimes. But they are not evil, bad, stupid (mostly) or hurting anyone, so why the excessive vitriol directed at them?

Because they actually are evil, bad, and stupid. They are malicious, hateful bullies. They are ignorant, privileged, prejudiced narcissists.

Could you please link to these posts/threads where you went against the A+ groupthink?

 

[appalling]

At heart Aplussers are bullies although they'll never admit it. Yea, sure they had some rough times, we all had rough times only most of us don't go around using those rough times as an excuse to "get back" at the society that they feel didn't meet their needs.

I'd say that I don't believe that all complaints made are necessarily made without basis.

 

[Rrose Selavy]

As a new JREFer, who are the best examples who have expressed significant disagreement with JREF who aren't banned?

As I already said, the JREF is not the same as the membership of this forum.

But the record is there for anyone who wants to see why anyone is banned from this forum.
Scanning entries it's usually for sockpuppertry, abusive PMs, or breaches of the membership agreement. Not on the arbitrary whims of a moderator.
and not for "disagreeing with JREF", whatever that is?


http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=53&order=desc

 

[appalling]

Because they actually are evil, bad, and stupid. They are malicious, hateful bullies. They are ignorant, privileged, prejudiced narcissists.

Could you please link to these posts/threads where you went against the A+ groupthink?

How could you forget all the name-calling they do?

 

[AvalonXQ]

Atheism Plus

No links, then?

Sorry if I don't take your word that any disagreement is tolerated among the clique above the level of what flavor lipgloss to wear.

 

[appalling]

As I already said, the JREF is not the same as the membership of this forum.

But the record is there for anyone who wants to see why anyone is banned from this forum.
Scanning entries it's usually for sockpuppertry, abusive PMs, or breaches of the membership agreement. Not on the arbitrary whims of a moderator.
and not for "disagreeing with JREF", whatever that is?


http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=53&order=desc

I don't know if the people banned would have the same view of the reasons behind their respective bans.

I'm sure some of them had the opinion, however wrongly, that they were "just making a perfectly rational point".

 

[tsig]

Because they actually are evil, bad, and stupid. They are malicious, hateful bullies. They are ignorant, privileged, prejudiced narcissists.

Unlike this post which is a model of deportment, right?

 

[Stout]

Do you have to tread more carefully there than other places? Yeah, and I have mixed feelings about the viability of "safe spaces," but it seems to me that most of the people who have been banned were being jerks if not outright trolls, not coming in good faith.
I can understand finding A+ frustrating and not for you - I feel that way myself sometimes. But they are not evil, bad, stupid (mostly) or hurting anyone, so why the excessive vitriol directed at them?

My bold

See, that's just A+ being either paranoid or outright dishonest. Most of the people banned at A+ have been ordinary people who simply lack the 301 level of SJ discourse that A+ demands. They've been very clear on wanting that "high level" which they have to know very very few people possess with the ceepolk even going so far as to find it oppressive when a plebe jumps in on a conversation without that "high level"of "understanding"

No, I don't have a link, it was a couple of weeks ago, but, yes she, whoops, xe said it.

 

[AvalonXQ]

Atheism Plus

Unlike this post which is a model of deportment, right?

I'm just answering the question. The vitriol exists because they really are terrible human beings who like to hurt people. It gives them pleasure to hate others and to harm those they hate. They are evil, and so they receive the description they deserve.

 

[Amadanb]

Because they actually are evil, bad, and stupid. They are malicious, hateful bullies. They are ignorant, privileged, prejudiced narcissists.

Could you please link to these posts/threads where you went against the A+ groupthink?

Well, first of all, I can't because I can't post links with less than 15 posts. Second, no, I am not going to go search the A+ forum collecting links. I know I have disagreed about tone arguments, about whether or not certain statements are gaslighting or victim-blaming, and there was one discussion about trans people where I definitely got some people riled at me, yet I was not banned. Even though I did not change my opinion. So I ask you again, what exactly do you mean by "groupthink"? I mean, if you want to go and argue that feminism sucks, yeah, you'll probably get banned. They state pretty clearly that the board doesn't exist to host debating societies. It's fine to have places like here where you'll even debate creationists and 9/11 truthers and whoever, but not every board has to be that kind of place, it doesn't make them censoring bullies.

And "evil, bad, stupid, malicious, hateful bullies, ignorant, privileged, prejudiced narcissists" is an assertion you seem to be making based on... what? Are you saying that is true of every single A+ member? Of everyone who supports the goals of A+? All I get is that you really hate A+.

 

[appalling]

JREF has rules about obscenity and indecency, and rightly so for the sake of actually having conversations.

People are banned for violating these rules, I would assume.

When people are banned for Membership Agreement violations on these grounds, aren't they being banned for violating an interpretation of what is obscene, subjectively determined by a JREF mod?

Again, JREF isn't an objective free-for-all either, and shouldn't be, in my opinion.

 

[Rrose Selavy]

I don't know if the people banned would have the same view of the reasons behind their respective bans.

I'm sure some of them had the opinion, however wrongly, that they were "just making a perfectly rational point".

+

I doubt it . Perhaps you need to spend a bit more time here and on the other boards and see how many "perfectly rational points" get a warning, let alone a ban.