Atheism Plus/Free Thought Blogs (FTB)

Status
Not open for further replies.
AbsurdWalls said:
Has JREF done something awful to Wind? Or is Ceepolk gaslighting him?
Click to expand...

All I said negative about the JREF was that I didn't/don't totally like the culture here. I also mentioned several times that I do like a lot of the people here, and didn't think there was any inherent need for animosity between the two forums, and still deeply suspect that there are members at both forums who are "in the closet" about that. Maybe I am/was the only one. But, you know, color me skeptical.

I also started a thread over there about "Who do you LIKE from the JREF?", which was met with a thread lock and a warning. :confused:

Because I'm a full-on political leftist and am annoyed by Ayn Rand libertarians, I hoped A+ would be a good fit for me (not instead of here but in addition to here.) I was wrong, for now, at least. If their forum survives (and again, color me skeptical. How many large forums do you know of that have secret layers and mods with no problem just flat out lying about it?) maybe the place will be different in a year or two. Forums change over the years. And A+ is still an infant movement. And most of the mods there mean well. And there are some nice, intelligent people there.
 
kellyb said:
All I said negative about the JREF was that I didn't/don't totally like the culture here. I also mentioned several times that I do like a lot of the people here, and didn't think there was any inherent need for animosity between the two forums, and still deeply suspect that there are members at both forums who are "in the closet" about that. Maybe I am/was the only one. But, you know, color me skeptical.

I also started a thread over there about "Who do you LIKE from the JREF?", which was met with a thread lock and a warning. :confused:

Because I'm a full-on political leftist and am annoyed by Ayn Rand libertarians, I hoped A+ would be a good fit for me (not instead of here but in addition to here.) I was wrong, for now, at least. If their forum survives (and again, color me skeptical. How many large forums do you know of that have secret layers and mods with no problem just flat out lying about it?) maybe the place will be different in a year or two. Forums change over the years. And A+ is still an infant movement. And most of the mods there mean well. And there are some nice, intelligent people there.
Click to expand...

My impression of A+ is that it is a very cliquey and hostile place. That is far beyond what is necessary to protect underprivileged or marginalised people, in fact it is usually those people who are being hurt by it. I am not surprised to see that they have gone as far as to make a secret forum there. They might as well go the whole hog and make most of the site hidden to outsiders as it is doing them no good to have us able to see what a nightmare it is.
 
Mr. Scott said:
Here's a list of logical fallacies. You can pick one. False dilemma?
Click to expand...

The first problem with that is that it is only a list of commonly occurring fallacies, not every possible fallacy. The second being that not every unsound argument has its own special name. Is your argument an instance of a valid form? Is it sound?
 
kellyb said:
All I said negative about the JREF was that I didn't/don't totally like the culture here. I also mentioned several times that I do like a lot of the people here, and didn't think there was any inherent need for animosity between the two forums, and still deeply suspect that there are members at both forums who are "in the closet" about that. Maybe I am/was the only one. But, you know, color me skeptical.

I also started a thread over there about "Who do you LIKE from the JREF?", which was met with a thread lock and a warning. :confused:

Because I'm a full-on political leftist and am annoyed by Ayn Rand libertarians, I hoped A+ would be a good fit for me (not instead of here but in addition to here.) I was wrong, for now, at least. If their forum survives (and again, color me skeptical. How many large forums do you know of that have secret layers and mods with no problem just flat out lying about it?) maybe the place will be different in a year or two. Forums change over the years. And A+ is still an infant movement. And most of the mods there mean well. And there are some nice, intelligent people there.
Click to expand...

This might cheer you up:

 
A few points if I may.

This is not a JREF v A+ thread. This is a skeptic thread where the illogical bits of A+ (and yes, they are many and varied - that's why the thread is so long!), are brought to light and discussed.

JREF isn't a movement.

A+ deserves to be treated with animosity for a variety of reasons. Individuals should make their own decisions regarding this, though.

My personal opinion is that A+ needs to be isolated and studied so it can be determined what nutrients they have that might be extracted for our personal use.
 
Last edited:
AbsurdWalls said:
New developments at A+ in the "Are the moderators..." thread:

In detail: somebody has let slip to Wind that there is a secret forum where everybody actually posts (wondering why it was so dead?). In that space apparently people are less... careful than they are in the open space. The implication is that's where all the real discussion happens, including deciding who gets shunned, who gets dogpiled etc. Obviously you would be forgiven for thinking there could be no such organisation involved in running A+ considering their conduct so far, but there you go.

The response to this was initially denial. Then a couple of people let slip that it was true. Denial and admission overlapped for a while, but they settled on admitting it happened and then pumping Wind to find out who his source was by trying to butter him up (saying he was being manipulated into hurting the forum). Rightly, they are concerned that their EVEN-SAFER space has been infiltrated by somebody who doesn't like A+, which is completely unsurprising when you consider that is ALWAYS what happens with secret places like that. People who posted compromising personal details on there are no-doubt very nervous at the idea that this guy is going to release it (to clarify my own stance: that would be a pretty horrible thing to do).

Unfortunately for them, Wind's response was to deny his source. The people there KNOW he must have a source, but can't get it out of him. I wouldn't be surprised if they crack into the forum to find out (if Wind and his source conversed by PM).
Click to expand...

I swear to god it was 99% just observation about how forum culture works there compared to other forums I've been a member of that were later exposed as having a secret forum for the in-group.

Then there was an incident where I was PMed a link where people were gossiping about me (I could see my name in the title of the thread) and I got the "you do not have access" message when I tried to click on it, which was painful to have that confirmation, but also good for my sanity. My inquiries about that were met with non-answers.

Funny how it has to be that I'm untrustworthy (???), or being used by someone else (??? lol ). The possibility that any self-reflection on any of their parts might be useful is totally off the table.

This at a forum where screaming "F*** YOU!" (without the asterisks) is fairly routine and accepted as "normal", but you can get banned for sending someone a FRIENDLY PM.
 
Krikkiter said:
A few points if I may.

This is not a JREF v A+ thread. This is a skeptic thread where the illogical bits of A+ (and yes, they are many and varied - that's why the thread is so long!), are brought to light and discussed.

JREF isn't a movement.

A+ deserves to be treated with animosity for a variety of reasons. Individuals should make their own decisions regarding this, though.

My personal opinion is that A+ needs to be isolated and studied so it can be determined what nutrients they have that might be extracted for our personal use.
Click to expand...

I'd say skepticism is a movement (sort of, at least) and the JREF is its most visible public outlet.

"A+ needs to be isolated and studied so it can be determined what nutrients they have that might be extracted for our personal use"...it is probably an unusually good safe space for some groups, but safety and skepticism are sometimes directly at odds with one another.
 
AbsurdWalls said:
I don't know whether you've already revealed this detail on A+, but I think a board admin might be able to use what you just said to find out who your source was.
Click to expand...

I guess they could go into my account, change my password, log in as me, and go through my PMs to see who accidentally (and it was an accident - the member who sent it totally forgot that the board was a secret, or forgot that I wasn't in there) sent me a link from the secret forum.
If they want to do that, have at it, I guess. (although that would be weird and creepy, but some of them seem to think all sorts of unconventional rules and behaviors are normal, so you never know.) There was nothing nefarious on my end or the end of the person who accidentally sent it, tho.
 
kellyb said:
I'd say skepticism is a movement (sort of, at least) and the JREF is its most visible public outlet.
Click to expand...


You're right but I was thinking comparatively. A+ seems to insist that they are some kind of movement.


kellyb said:
"A+ needs to be isolated and studied so it can be determined what nutrients they have that might be extracted for our personal use"...it is probably an unusually good safe space for some groups, but safety and skepticism are sometimes directly at odds with one another.
Click to expand...

Honestly, that place is just odd. Mods openly ganging up and arguing with members? Hmmmm....

Some members seem to be allowed to swear and abuse people whenever they feel like it.

Hypocrisy and contradictions.

Someone said it earlier - every time I read a thread from A+ it makes me wonder why I thought it might be a good idea.
 
Krikkiter said:
You're right but I was thinking comparatively. A+ seems to insist that they are some kind of movement.
Click to expand...

I could probably name a movement it is. :D

Seriously though there is no grey area for these folks at all. Every issue is Black and White, Right and Wrong, no in-between exists for them. They seem very fundamentalist in that respect.
 
Last edited:
Krikkiter said:
Honestly, that place is just odd. Mods openly ganging up and arguing with members? Hmmmm....

Some members seem to be allowed to swear and abuse people whenever they feel like it.

Hypocrisy and contradictions.

Someone said it earlier - every time I read a thread from A+ it makes me wonder why I thought it might be a good idea.
Click to expand...

It's not unique. It is very similar to what happened with the LGBT community on Reddit. That should not be surprising, the people who drove the LGBT community away to start a more friendly community overlap with the people involved with running Atheism+.
 
AbsurdWalls said:
Has JREF done something awful to Wind? Or is Ceepolk gaslighting him?
Click to expand...

That's just straight up manipulation. Isolate the victim by saying "we" meaning A+ are the only real friends you have so you better come clean lest you find yourself an outcast.

At least that's how I read.

Interestingly Ceepolk has appeared to have adopted this tactic throughout the hole affair and abandoned the stern kindergarten teacher shtick.
 
kellyb said:
I guess they could go into my account, change my password, log in as me, and go through my PMs to see who accidentally (and it was an accident - the member who sent it totally forgot that the board was a secret, or forgot that I wasn't in there) sent me a link from the secret forum.
If they want to do that, have at it, I guess. (although that would be weird and creepy, but some of them seem to think all sorts of unconventional rules and behaviors are normal, so you never know.) There was nothing nefarious on my end or the end of the person who accidentally sent it, tho.
Click to expand...

It's an optional feature with phpBB to allow admins to read other peoples' private messages. Alternatively they could just go into the database manually and take a look. I would expect that they will do it, they've already demonstrated that they consider themselves somehow above having to behave ethically because "the ends justify the means". Also, even if they did it, they would never have to admit to doing it.
 
Krikkiter said:
You're right but I was thinking comparatively. A+ seems to insist that they are some kind of movement.

Honestly, that place is just odd. Mods openly ganging up and arguing with members? Hmmmm....

Some members seem to be allowed to swear and abuse people whenever they feel like it.

Hypocrisy and contradictions.

Someone said it earlier - every time I read a thread from A+ it makes me wonder why I thought it might be a good idea.
Click to expand...

Side this completely.

How they allow someone like The Laughing Coyote to function in their supposed safe space is beyond me. He's nothing but insults and quite possibly the greatest troll the internet has even seen.

Your it was a good idea, idea, was probably based on the assumption that it would be filled with everyday progressive folks, kind of like this place and not with the power hungry professional victims that currently pull the strings.
 
bedlin88 said:
I could probably name a movement it is. :D

Seriously though there is no grey area for these folks at all. Every issue is Black and White, Right and Wrong, no in-between exists for them. They seem very fundamentalist in that respect.
Click to expand...

I think the driving assumptions are "We are honest, moral people," and "Honest, moral people don't cause problems."

From that, we get:
"If we have a problem, then it is being caused by a dishonest, immoral person."
 
dasmiller said:
I think the driving assumptions are "We are honest, moral people," and "Honest, moral people don't cause problems."

From that, we get:
"If we have a problem, then it is being caused by a dishonest, immoral person."
Click to expand...

People who consider themselves so Honest and Moral that they get to decide what is right and what is wrong scare me for some reason.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Back
Top Bottom