Atheism Plus/Free Thought Blogs (FTB)

[The Central Scrutinizer]

True enough, but my point is that the signs are not a bad thing.

In any large social gathering harassment, arguments, and "that one guy" will almost always occur. Having a policy (which in practice is far more for the staff than the general guests) on how to deal with it is a good thing. That the policy can be poorly written, even to the point of being a major problem itself, is an argument for being careful and rational about how these things are written, distributed, and enforced, not an argument for eliminating them altogether.

Did the last restaurant you went into have a posted harassement policy? Having just checked the websites of several restaurants, both locally owned and national chains, I'm guessing the answer is no. So if you are harassed in a restaurant by another patron, how will you know what to do?

 

[Irony]

By the way, nobody of those who scolded DJ Grothe for allegedly not handling security properly had any qualification in security management. None of them had a clue about security whatsoever, but each of them insisted that formulating policies would totally improve security.
While the clueless were compiling their pointless lists of dos and dont's, he silently did the only reasonable thing to do as the organizer of a big event: He consulted professional security experts.

Which is completely beside the point. No one here is arguing that their proposed changes were good.

You're arguing that TAM shouldn't have a policy, and that these policies don't exist, except that as you noted TAM already had one, so apparently TAM had the one and only harassment policy of any meeting ever, but should discard it because they're completely useless.

In case you haven't caught on by now, I'm not even arguing with the point I think you're trying to make, (that the A+ groups proposed changes would be bad). But you seem to be so caught up in rabid hatred of anything A+ that you have countered their proposal to put everyone on oxygen tanks with a blanket condemnation of oxygen and an assertion that it has no use.

 

[The Central Scrutinizer]

I've been to hundreds of discoteques, concerts and other events in many different countries. Not once was I confronted with a "code of conduct" before entering. Rather advice like "Take valuables with you" or something like that.

This.

I have a very close friend who is in the conventions business. He has been at hundreds of conventions. In his experience, none, not a single one, has ever had a posted harassment policy either at the conference, or on the website. Why do skeptics conferences feel that they need to have them? It's embarrassing.

 

[Irony]

Did the last restaurant you went into have a posted harassement policy? Having just checked the websites of several restaurants, both locally owned and national chains, I'm guessing the answer is no. So if you are harassed in a restaurant by another patron, how will you know what to do?

Beside the point. As a patron I have no particular need to know, and as a typically small organization where a few already-formed groups meet for an hour or so they don't have remotely the same sort of issues. I would expect a restaurant might have policies (possibly unwritten, as they are small) concerning food safety, preparation, etc.

Or are you now going to argue that the existence of internal policies on how long to cook meat might scare the customers?

 

[Irony]

This.

I have a very close friend who is in the conventions business. He has been at hundreds of conventions. In his experience, none, not a single one, has ever had a posted harassment policy either at the conference, or on the website. Why do skeptics conferences feel that they need to have them? It's embarrassing.

Did you not just mention that TAM already had such a policy? I guess they don't count somehow.

Edit: Also, posted is a rather important word here. I never once suggested that it's necessary to publicly post these policies, merely that it's good to have them available for staff to have some guidance for how to handle those situations.

 

[Verklagekasper]

Thank you. Grothe did nothing untoward IMO. The things said about him were down right dishonest and vile. He had a legitimate concern. He voiced an opinion. That's all. The weeping and wailing and bitching and moaning over that were so over the top as to be asinine.

Not that there were not legitimate counter points or that there were not legitimate concerns. One could argue Grothe was perhaps insensitive, (I don't think that is the case) but one cannot argue that DJ was simply being dismissive.

True. And I don't understand until today what exact buttons DJ pressed to make them go that ballistic.

 

[Verklagekasper]

Which is completely beside the point. No one here is arguing that their proposed changes were good.

You're arguing that TAM shouldn't have a policy, and that these policies don't exist, except that as you noted TAM already had one, so apparently TAM had the one and only harassment policy of any meeting ever, but should discard it because they're completely useless.

In case you haven't caught on by now, I'm not even arguing with the point I think you're trying to make, (that the A+ groups proposed changes would be bad). But you seem to be so caught up in rabid hatred of anything A+ that you have countered their proposal to put everyone on oxygen tanks with a blanket condemnation of oxygen and an assertion that it has no use.

Oxygen tanks?

 

[Irony]

True. And I don't understand until today what exact buttons DJ pressed to make them go that ballistic.

From my understanding they interpreted him saying TAM hadn't had any trouble with harassment as a complete dismissal of it as a problem. Honestly, I don't think there's anything he could have done, as they seemed to be itching for a fight and were willing to read all sorts of imagined "meaning" into his statements so they could have their fight, rather like what you have been doing.

 

[Irony]

Oxygen tanks?

The tanks some people carry around when they have trouble breathing. It's just a generic example of a completely over-the-top "fix" to a rare problem.

 

[The Central Scrutinizer]

Beside the point. As a patron I have no particular need to know, and as a typically small organization where a few already-formed groups meet for an hour or so they don't have remotely the same sort of issues. I would expect a restaurant might have policies (possibly unwritten, as they are small) concerning food safety, preparation, etc.

Or are you now going to argue that the existence of internal policies on how long to cook meat might scare the customers?

So no other person at that restaurant ever interacts with any of the other patrons? Wow.

 

[The Central Scrutinizer]

Did you not just mention that TAM already had such a policy? I guess they don't count somehow.

Edit: Also, posted is a rather important word here. I never once suggested that it's necessary to publicly post these policies, merely that it's good to have them available for staff to have some guidance for how to handle those situations.

Yes, TAM was the only exception. That's embarrassing. How do you suppose all the hundreds of thousands of people at those other conferences managed to make it through without a posted harassment policy?

 

[Mr. Scott]

I noticed that conservapedia has a page on atheism plus, but wiki does not. This reinforces my perception that A+ benefits, on balance, the enemies of atheism.

Atheism plus is a faction of atheism which holds to a liberal/progressive political agenda. It developed out of the atheist and political ideology of Freethought blogs and was partly a response to the New Atheism and to the Elevatorgate scandal.

(I'm not citing conservapedia as an authority, but rather an example of how enemies of atheism view the plus faction.)

Mr. Scott's summary of Elevatorgate: Rebecca Watson was invited in an elevator to coffee by someone she talked with minutes before, but because of her face blindness (Prosopagnosia^WP), believed he was a complete stranger, so she felt uncomfortable.

Area of brain damage responsible for face blindness (the fusiform face area^WP):

 

[Stout]

I had an epiphany last night while reading A+. I can actually see a need for an anti-harassment policy, strictly enforced, at conventions.

There's a petition circulating. . now I didn't sign it because I'm not planning on attending any of these rape fests in the near future however if you are planning on going, you might what to add your voice.

Suppose, just suppose, you want to make a joke. You think long and hard about how this joke may be perceived at the conference. You think it's kind of cute, kind of clever and you may have spent hours writing it for someone in particular.

You tell your joke without offending the recipient

HOWEVER !

A special snowflake hears it and applies higher level social justice reasoning thinking logic whatever to it and twists it into something so odious, something so offensive that you're out on your ass because that special snowflake is waving the anti-harassment policy around and demanding disciplinary action.

Ha ha, you say, Stout, you funny guy, nobody's that stoopid.

May I present to you that very scenario happening only yesterday over on A+

 

[Irony]

Yes, TAM was the only exception. That's embarrassing. How do you suppose all the hundreds of thousands of people at those other conferences managed to make it through without a posted harassment policy?

See, here is where you are exactly like the A+ group. You are spoiling for a fight, it doesn't matter what I say. It's obvious from your posts that you haven't actually read what I've been saying in any honest way, but rather you have been twisting it in ways that no rational person possibly could so that you can have your pointless argument against something I AM NOT SAYING. You do this in the exact same way that they twist every comment to be "sexist" no matter how difficult.

 

[Brainache]

I had an epiphany last night while reading A+. I can actually see a need for an anti-harassment policy, strictly enforced, at conventions.

There's a petition circulating. . now I didn't sign it because I'm not planning on attending any of these rape fests in the near future however if you are planning on going, you might what to add your voice.

Suppose, just suppose, you want to make a joke. You think long and hard about how this joke may be perceived at the conference. You think it's kind of cute, kind of clever and you may have spent hours writing it for someone in particular.

You tell your joke without offending the recipient

HOWEVER !

A special snowflake hears it and applies higher level social justice reasoning thinking logic whatever to it and twists it into something so odious, something so offensive that you're out on your ass because that special snowflake is waving the anti-harassment policy around and demanding disciplinary action.

Ha ha, you say, Stout, you funny guy, nobody's that stoopid.

May I present to you that very scenario happening only yesterday over on A+

I've been following this thread and generally avoiding clicking on any of the links to A+, but for some reason I clicked that one. I knew these people were a bit touchy about some things, but damn, that **** is just mad.

Why isn't "Eowyn Entwife" concerned that her user name contains "wife"? Isn't "wife" a Patriarchal term used to designate a woman as the property of a man (I guess Ent in this case)?

Given that Ents are giant and made of wood, I don't think she could claim much ambiguity about their gender...

 

[Acleron]

I had an epiphany last night while reading A+. I can actually see a need for an anti-harassment policy, strictly enforced, at conventions.

There's a petition circulating. . now I didn't sign it because I'm not planning on attending any of these rape fests in the near future however if you are planning on going, you might what to add your voice.

Suppose, just suppose, you want to make a joke. You think long and hard about how this joke may be perceived at the conference. You think it's kind of cute, kind of clever and you may have spent hours writing it for someone in particular.

You tell your joke without offending the recipient

HOWEVER !

A special snowflake hears it and applies higher level social justice reasoning thinking logic whatever to it and twists it into something so odious, something so offensive that you're out on your ass because that special snowflake is waving the anti-harassment policy around and demanding disciplinary action.

Ha ha, you say, Stout, you funny guy, nobody's that stoopid.

May I present to you that very scenario happening only yesterday over on A+

Every time I follow a link to that forum I wished I hadn't.

Great advertisement for free speech isn't it? In fact a great advertisement for speech, I'm sure they are using words I've known for most of my life in a totally bizarre way.

 

[Irony]

May I present to you that very scenario happening only yesterday over on A+

Wow, reading that "interpretation" from Entwife, I'm almost impressed. That's TimeCube level "interpretation". Also notable that the objection, stretched though it is, is about the mere existence of sex.

 

[Stout]

I was curious about the meaning of Eowyn Entwife so I went a-googlin' and although I'm not up on my LOTR esoterica, I found it was a couple of words struck together that looked to give a rough translation/male equivalent of something like Conan the Gardner.

At A+...they mock free speech, calling it freeze peach. Apparently, it's not something we're to be trusted with lest we offend somebody.

Sex bad, Dworkin good

 

[Irony]

I was curious about the meaning of Eowyn Entwife so I went a-googlin' and although I'm not up on my LOTR esoterica, I found it was a couple of words struck together that looked to give a rough translation/male equivalent of something like Conan the Gardner.

At A+...they mock free speech, calling it freeze peach. Apparently, it's not something we're to be trusted with lest we offend somebody.

Sex bad, Dworkin good

From the name, I'm sure it's a safe bet she's a Lord of the Rings fan.

Maybe we should get the writer of this article, to talk to her about that.

Fire with fire... or is that phrase sexist too?

 

[mijopaalmc]

there once was a man from the sticks
who liked to compose limericks.

but he failed at the sport,
for he wrote 'em too short.​

omgclassism!!!!1!111!eleventyone!!!!!!!!!!!!

Such rank classism, I do say, my dear fellow.