Atheism Plus/Free Thought Blogs (FTB)

[Dani]

?

I'm sorry? What exactly do you think I'm talking about?

The nexus between Elevatorgate and A+.

 

[zooterkin]

What nexus in particular are you implying? All I see in the video is a plausible explanation of the "Dear Muslima" dismissive response from Dawkins in which the speaker goes back to the conference at Dublin and Watson's ad hominem response to Paula Kirby.

By the way, I found it interesting that in Zooterkin's link "elevatorgate" appears more times than "boobquake" (not to mention "elevator" alone).

In the comments, from other people. In the blog item from Jennifer, Boobquake appears twice, elevatorgate is not mentioned.

Elevatorgate is some sort of improvised publicity stunt that progressed as the events unraveled, a publicity that helped a lot pave the way for A+.

As was Boobquake itself.

Jen McCreight said "go", but Elevatorgate had previously increased the demand for it.

A point I would not dispute. Just to recap, what I'm disputing is the bald statement that Rebecca started A+.

What do y'all make of the fact that Rebecca Watson started all this but refuses to become a card carrying a-plusser?

She did not. She may have been a significant factor as far a number of people were concerned.

I'm also disputing:

True but A+ is largely a result of EG.

That was in support of the statement that Rebecca started Atheism Plus. I would agree that without Elevatorgate that it's possible that A+ would not have happened, but the ball was already rolling following the reaction to Boobquake; Rebecca did not start Atheism+.

 

[zooterkin]

Okay folks, here is the link. I'm posting a link because to copy and paste the entire text is against forum rules.

http://www.scribd.com/doc/119217536/Video-Transcript-of-EG-analysis

Please bear in mind that I did it quickly and it's not been proof read.

ETA: Okay so I don't know how to use SCRIBD. If you find that text difficult to read try the following link instead.

http://www.scribd.com/doc/119222252

Well, thank you for that, I guess, though having read it (took a minute, so thank you for saving my, and everyone else's, time), I fail to see how it shows anything at all about Atheism+ or Jennifer McCreight (you know, the person who actually started A+).

(As an aside, it does back up DJ's statement about women being put off attending atheist and skeptical conferences by stories about how they will be harassed and not receive support at them. There's a great example right there:

"You know, since starting Skepchick, I've heard from a lot of women who don't attend events like this because of those of you who have this attitude. They're tired of being objectified, and some of them have actually been raped; quite a number of them have been raped, or otherwise sexually assaulted. And situations like the one I was in, in an elevator, would have triggered a panic attack. They're scared, because they know that you won't stand up for them. And if they stand up for themselves, you're going to laugh them back down. And that's why they're not coming out to these events."

However, that's not what this thread is about.)

 

[zooterkin]

That was posted at 12:35 PM.

It's now 3:12.

In two and a half hours you couldn't spare 7 minutes to watch a video. But you sure had plenty of time to explain why you wouldn't watch the video.

And here it was 11:12pm. Apologies that I was in bed, sleeping.

 

[squealpiggy]

Justin Vacula has gone looking for trouble:

http://atheismplus.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=3496

That forum is... quite astonishing. As in ludicrously bad.

Oh yes please tell me your BIG IMPORTANT WHITE ABLE NEUROTYPICAL CISMAN OPINIONS about these things.

You forgot to mention "SPECIESIST" and "EARTH-CENTRIC".

Also Vacula was banned within two pages and about five posts for... I'm not exactly sure why. I suppose he must have deeply triggered some deeply disturbing memories among the forumites with his cruel use of calm and polite questioning.

 

[RandFan]

The nexus between Elevatorgate and A+.

Then what exactly am I missing? The whole thing blew sky high after the Dawkins episode. Not before. I'm not sure how you make a coherent narrative of the events and leave out the Dawkins affair. Please to explain that to me?

 

[RandFan]

That was in support of the statement that Rebecca started Atheism Plus. I would agree that without Elevatorgate that it's possible that A+ would not have happened, but the ball was already rolling following the reaction to Boobquake; Rebecca did not start Atheism+.

"The ball was rolling" is a bit of a weasel phrase. It was rolling following the big bang. Every event is preceded by another event. I personally see nothing about Boobquake that would indicate that the "ball was rolling". But that's fine we can disagree.

 

[RandFan]

I fail to see how it shows anything at all about Atheism+ or Jennifer McCreight (you know, the person who actually started A+).

While I cannot prove that A+ was directly the result of EG, the events that preceded it are quite clear. If A+ would have happened without EG, and I doubt it, EG was certainly a catalyst to jump start the entire affair. Dawkins dismissal of RW and PZ Myers taking on of Dawkins was a huge affair and if you are honest you will admit that the lines were largely drawn in the sand at that time and many of the actors behind A+ are the same actors involved in EG, am I right?

 

[RandFan]

deleted

 

[zooterkin]

While I cannot prove that A+ was directly the result of EG, the events that preceded it are quite clear. If A+ would have happened without EG, and I doubt it, EG was certainly a catalyst to jump start the entire affair. Dawkins dismissal of RW and PZ Myers taking on of Dawkins was a huge affair and if you are honest you will admit that the lines were largely drawn in the sand at that time and many of the actors behind A+ are the same actors involved in EG, am I right?

Rebecca Watson did not start A+. Do you agree?

 

[RandFan]

Rebecca Watson did not start A+. Do you agree?

I was pretty damn clear. Rebecca Watson did not dream up and then implement A+. That was never my position. My position is and was the following:

While I cannot prove that A+ was directly the result of EG, the events that preceded it are quite clear. If A+ would have happened without EG, and I doubt it, EG was certainly a catalyst to jump start the entire affair. Dawkins dismissal of RW and PZ Myers taking on of Dawkins was a huge affair and if you are honest you will admit that the lines were largely drawn in the sand at that time and many of the actors behind A+ are the same actors involved in EG, am I right?

I've answered your question now please have the decency to answer mine?

 

[RandFan]

It was Jennifer McCreight who started A+, not Rebecca.

True but A+ is largely a result of EG.

Zooterkin: Jennifer McCreight started A+
RandFan: True

Zooterkin, what part of "true" do you not get?

 

[zooterkin]

Zooterkin: Jennifer McCreight started A+
RandFan: True

Zooterkin, what part of "true" do you not get?

Actually, it went more like this:

What do y'all make of the fact that Rebecca Watson started all this but refuses to become a card carrying a-plusser?

Is there any evidence of false flag participation, or is it just so bad that it might as well be even if it isn't?

It was Jennifer McCreight who started A+, not Rebecca.

Yea, but it was all sparked by Rebecca's Elevatorgate, wasn't it?

Only in a roundabout way, the best part of two years later.

True but A+ is largely a result of EG.

You were chiming in with almost the same point already put forward by Mr Scott, with the added distraction of linking to, of all places, conservapedia.

I accept that elevatorgate was a significant event in polarising things, on the way to A+, but that journey started well before EG. I do not accept that it was the start of A+, nor the major cause of it.

As I suggested in my reply Mr. Scott, there was a long time between Elevatorgate and A+, so it wasn't a proximate cause. The issue of sexism and skeptical and atheist conferences being unsafe for women didn't start with that, however, and goes back even further. Just as an example, see Jen McCreight's write up of TAM8 (in 2010). She's giving an overall positive review, but still bringing up the issue of harassment and sexism, even accusing Harriet Hall of sexism (retracting that particular accusation, thankfully).

If you were simply agreeing with me (though the 'but' suggests otherwise) then I apologise for the digression.

 

[RandFan]

If you were simply agreeing with me (though the 'but' suggests otherwise) then I apologise for the digression.

IMO: I do not for a moment think many people would give a damn about A+ without EG. I never claimed RW started A+. My only point (perhaps poorly made) is that to the extent that A+ has garnered significant interest it is largely due to EG.

I appreciate the apology and I will also apologize for any misunderstanding.

ETA: I don't think that is necessarily a bad thing. I'm not anti-atheism+

 

[Stout]

FFZ - The Girl Who Cried Wolf - An Atheist Fairy Tale

A podcast on YouTube, 4 minutes

 

[The Central Scrutinizer]

FFZ - The Girl Who Cried Wolf - An Atheist Fairy Tale

A podcast on YouTube, 4 minutes

I don't have 4 minutes. Can you post a summarization?

 

[GraculusTheGreenBird]

Video is an incredibly inefficient method of communicating simple ideas that could be delivered via text in a fraction of the time.

Also extremely inconvenient for those with limited bandwidth, or viewing on a phone, or reading at work, or no loudspeakers etc.

I wish they wouldn't do that. But it seems all the rage these days..

 

[Mr. Scott]

Actually, it went more like this:

You were chiming in with almost the same point already put forward by Mr Scott, with the added distraction of linking to, of all places, conservapedia.

I accept that elevatorgate was a significant event in polarising things, on the way to A+, but that journey started well before EG. I do not accept that it was the start of A+, nor the major cause of it.

As I suggested in my reply Mr. Scott, there was a long time between Elevatorgate and A+, so it wasn't a proximate cause. The issue of sexism and skeptical and atheist conferences being unsafe for women didn't start with that, however, and goes back even further. Just as an example, see Jen McCreight's write up of TAM8 (in 2010). She's giving an overall positive review, but still bringing up the issue of harassment and sexism, even accusing Harriet Hall of sexism (retracting that particular accusation, thankfully).

If you were simply agreeing with me (though the 'but' suggests otherwise) then I apologise for the digression.

I did not say Rebecca Watson^WP started A+. I said this whole "atheist meetings should be a safe place for women and they currently aren't" was sparked by Elevatorgate, the public face of this being A+. Rebecca is an instigator of A+ from the sidelines and rides its coattails. My guess is Rebecca isn't joining A+ officially because she took part in sexualizing and objectifying women atheists with her skepchick organization and their nude calender (below), so is too readily called out as a hypocrite.

I brought up Conservapedia^WP not because it was an authority on Atheism, but to show how gleeful conservatives and relgionists were that Atheism Plus was dripping poison into the atheist movement.

From Rebecca's youtube channel (warning - artful female nudity):

 

[zooterkin]

I did not say Rebecca Watson^WP started A+. I said this whole "atheist meetings should be a safe place for women and they currently aren't" was sparked by Elevatorgate, the public face of this being A+.

That might be what you meant, it wasn't what you said.

And, if you follow the link in the post you quoted, you can see the issue of atheist and skeptic meetings needing to be safe for women was being discussed a year before Elevatorgate, and that was by no means the start of that discussion.

 

[Recovering Agnostic]

It looks as if the last two pages have been taken up with atheists/skeptics ridiculously bickering over the precise timeline and causation of a different round of ridiculous atheist/skeptic bickering. Is that a fair summary?