Atheism Plus/Free Thought Blogs (FTB)

[devnull]

Another important aspect - which may or may not be part of the course - is that in order to dispute with someone, you should try to find out exactly what it is they are claiming, and try to argue with that.

All too often arguments revolve around trying to attribute claims that people never made, and using extrapolations of a position that aren't actually sound. This is not unknown on JREF, or any other forum, but it seems to be the A+ SOP. PZM in particular seems to favour the technique. Scott Myers seemed quite bewildered to find that he was being attacked for things he hadn't actually said, but that PZM was attributing to him.

So, what you're saying is you think the French are to blame, and you hate homosexuals?

Idiot.

 

[westprog]

So, what you're saying is you think the French are to blame, and you hate homosexuals?

OK, but that was just a lucky guess.

Idiot.

 

[Mr. Scott]

"Lack of Charity fallacy" is one of the 100 fallacies Julian Baggini explores in his "The Duck That Won the Lottery". I hadn't heard that one before, and it really chimed with me. (It's a great book, and I highly recommend it.)

I wish more people were aware of that one.

Would you briefly explain the "Lack of Charity fallacy" please? I haven't heard of that one before and can only find Principle of charity^WP in my searches. Thanks in advance!

 

[westprog]

I'm not sure, but I think this discussion where we vaguely pontificate about A+ is drawing more traffic than the A+ forum. Which probably means that we're both getting it wrong.

 

[tkmikkelsen]

First I did Atheism, then I started doing Atheism++ and really liked it. Now I have left it behind and jumped on the latest and the greatest Atheism#. It rocks a mile and is way better than that Objective Atheism some of self proclaimed "cool" people are using.

 

[Acleron]

First I did Atheism, then I started doing Atheism++ and really liked it. Now I have left it behind and jumped on the latest and the greatest Atheism#. It rocks a mile and is way better than that Objective Atheism some of self proclaimed "cool" people are using.

iAtheism?

 

[ufology]

Personally I've been pretty turned off of FTB of late but I'm undecided about this new thing out of the comments on Jen McCreight's blog.

http://freethoughtblogs.com/blaghag/2012/08/atheism/

Atheists plus we care about social justice,
Atheists plus we support women’s rights,
Atheists plus we protest racism,
Atheists plus we fight homophobia and transphobia,
Atheists plus we use critical thinking and skepticism.

If they actually supported the use of critical thinking and skepticism and cared about social justice they would leave out the emphasis on women's rights ( as opposed to everyone's equal rights ), racism ( same as simply supporting social justice ), and homophobia and transphobia ( same as simply supporting social justice ). By emphasizing these other things they are engaging in preferential treatment of pet issues rather than issues of a universal nature.

 

[Badger3k]

If they actually supported the use of critical thinking and skepticism and cared about social justice they would leave out the emphasis on women's rights ( as opposed to everyone's equal rights ), racism ( same as simply supporting social justice ), and homophobia and transphobia ( same as simply supporting social justice ). By emphasizing these other things they are engaging in preferential treatment of pet issues rather than issues of a universal nature.

Their whole list of things (and it is longer, IIRC) is all about pet issues - that's how it came about and that's all it is about. They'll implode (more) as more people try to push their pet issues to the front burner and try to shove others back.

ETA: they don't support humanism because humanism is full or old, white men. They don't need equality or social justice either, apparently.

 

[Humes fork]

iAtheism?

I'm not going to buy any other Apple product than my iPod, but if they release iAtheism, I might reconsider...

 

[dasmiller]

First I did Atheism, then I started doing Atheism++ and really liked it. Now I have left it behind and jumped on the latest and the greatest Atheism#. It rocks a mile and is way better than that Objective Atheism some of self proclaimed "cool" people are using.

I tried to come up with an extended programming analog- "This Objection-Oriented Philosophy," where classes are deprecated at the beginning of the life-cycle, and each code module starts with an "Excludes" block instead of the more-traditional include/import/using block.

But I have this short attention sp-

oooooh, shiny!

 

[westprog]

I'm not going to buy any other Apple product than my iPod, but if they release iAtheism, I might reconsider...

If if works like iMaps then you might find that iAtheism is a branch of iJudaism, and involves abstaining from fish on Fridays.

 

[Walter Wayne]

First I did Atheism, then I started doing Atheism++ and really liked it. Now I have left it behind and jumped on the latest and the greatest Atheism#. It rocks a mile and is way better than that Objective Atheism some of self proclaimed "cool" people are using.

I've used Atheism++ in my arguments, but people said it came across as plain Atheism. No I push ++Atheism.

 

[tkmikkelsen]

iAtheism?

That sounds like the next craze.

 

[tkmikkelsen]

I've used Atheism++ in my arguments, but people said it came across as plain Atheism. No I push ++Atheism.

Ah, you are pushing one of the fringe groups, eh!

Like those who are into Atheism-- (you are an atheist, but still want to drink a beer with Thor and Hercules).

 

[Ocelot]

Just to even things up I'm starting Agnosticism= and Religion- for Agnostics who's views on social justice are the things will probably sort themselves out in the end and for the Religious who want extra reasons to think women gays and ethnic minorities are inferior.

 

[Horatius]

Just to even things up I'm starting Agnosticism= and Religion- for Agnostics who's views on social justice are the things will probably sort themselves out in the end and for the Religious who want extra reasons to think women gays and ethnic minorities are inferior.

I would have thought that Religion- would have been:

Religious minus the opposition to social justice,
Religious minus the opposition to women’s rights,
Religious minus the support for racism,
Religious minus the support for homophobia and transphobia,
Religious minus the use of irrational thinking and pseudo-skepticism.


That way, they could then get together with the Atheistplussers, and focus on hashing out this, "God: Yes or No?" question, without all the other complications.

You know, just like the rest of the atheists are trying to do!

 

[LashL]

I split the off-topic posts about how atheists counsel dying persons to Abandon All Hope because they were off-topic for this thread and I couldn't merge them with the new thread that was subsequently created on that topic here since the posts show up in chronological order, etc. But, please free to continue the discussion on that subject in the new thread.

Posted By: LashL

 

[WillyWonka]

Their whole list of things (and it is longer, IIRC) is all about pet issues - that's how it came about and that's all it is about. They'll implode (more) as more people try to push their pet issues to the front burner and try to shove others back.

ETA: they don't support humanism because humanism is full or old, white men. They don't need equality or social justice either, apparently.

So far, all I can see is that A+ is fighting anything atheist on sight. Right now, the most important secular activity for them is not the separation of church and state, but Justin Vacula whom they do not approve. With friends like this...

 

[Badger3k]

So far, all I can see is that A+ is fighting anything atheist on sight. Right now, the most important secular activity for them is not the separation of church and state, but Justin Vacula whom they do not approve. With friends like this...

Yeah - their focus is to bring down anyone they currently hate (we have used the "witch of the week" label for whoever they decide to hate at the current time). I commented to the SCA that we need more activists like Vacula, who have done things in the real world, and have faced real hatred and threats (and still remains a basically nice guy, even if he does come across as a little naive to this cynical older man), rather than these "social justice warriors" (the new "keyboard kommandos" and "chairborne rangers") who's idea of activism is to write rage-filled blogs and comments, and try to silence anyone who disagrees with them.

For them, atheism and secularism are non-issues for the most part - they currently are promoting their brand of feminism (and anything-but-white-male-privilege) to the exclusion of just about everything else, and if you disagree with them (or even just post on forbidden sites), they will brand you as a hater-of-women. Justin posted someone's blogpost about the issue (http://emilyhasbooks.com/second-chances/), and while I disagree that he even needs a second chance (he did one thing stupid by posting the easily available info on Surly Amy - hell, I found it on my own in less than 30 seconds, but he asked that it be taken down), but reading the comments is fascinating from a psychological standpoint.

They just ignore the actions of their own (such as Watson doc dropping some guy for making a video she didn't like, which hopefully facebook will see as a violation of their policy as someone pointed out and reported), while projecting the beam in their eye onto others. The ends justify the means, as long as the ends are those they want.

It's pathetic, and disgusting.

 

[Badger3k]

Just a test post to see if it works. Using tapatalk on my iPad instead of my computer, and my last post may not have posted - even though it shows up in my app. I just want to see if this shows up on my iPad and then my computer and see if I can figure out where the problem lies. Ignore please.

Ok, weird - as soon as I submitted this, it worked and showed my last (long) post. Just a computer hiccup.