Atheism Plus/Free Thought Blogs (FTB)

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westprog said:
Strangely enough, the supposed problems of the atheist community - abusiveness, sexism, racism - don't seem to apply on this forum. Gender and race are as visible as people want them to be. Enforcement of the no-abuse rule is very imperfect, but it's existence tends to damp down personalisation. Especially annoying people can be put on ignore. Nobody seems to feel the need to find a JREF+ where there is consensus and friendship.
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I guess that means this forum is not a "safe space".

Good.
 
zeggman said:
Well, if I'm going to wear one, it's going to stand for Cool Humanist Upsetting Douchebags. I've never eaten a human in my life.
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There's a crude joke here, I know it.... :D

RebeccaBradley said:
I love it! How about some fake Surlyramic CHUD necklaces....?
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I typed "chud" into Google and searched for pictures. They're still prettier than a borophagus. Plus, if it gets really nasty, we can buy masks!
 
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westprog said:
Strangely enough, the supposed problems of the atheist community - abusiveness, sexism, racism - don't seem to apply on this forum. Gender and race are as visible as people want them to be. Enforcement of the no-abuse rule is very imperfect, but it's existence tends to damp down personalisation. Especially annoying people can be put on ignore. Nobody seems to feel the need to find a JREF+ where there is consensus and friendship.
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JREF+? Holy crap, that was my idea! and I was going to write a blog about it in June but the Cubs were in town, and now I am going to write a 10,000 word manifesto about it where the conclusion will ask are you for or against me, but adding a Planet X option, you know, for the kids.

Yours in Double Plus Goodness

Richie Carrier 16.5
 
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[Removed silly joke, I got all excited about a nuke and a fridge...]
 
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Been thinking about this whole A+ thing and I am confused to the point that I don't know how to react... and then I realized... That makes me A(non+).

I think I'll start my own group. Anyone interested? Alcohol will be in the mission statement!
 
qayak said:
Been thinking about this whole A+ thing and I am confused to the point that I don't know how to react... and then I realized... That makes me A(non+).

I think I'll start my own group. Anyone interested? Alcohol will be in the mission statement!
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So that would be Atheist + Alcohol = ?
 
Can some American please vote for the Libertarian Party in November and tell these clowns that it's because of them? Lots of beers promised when we are together in the dungeons of Carrier and Myers.

On a more serious note, I get the impression that what they don't like is that there are so many atheists and skeptics and humanists who are white males. While I'm all for trying to attract all sorts of people to skepticism, to complain at the attendees that most people who show up on meetups and the like are white males is silly. The people who show up are the ones who are interested and for whom it is convenient. What do you suggest, forcing women and minorities to attend at the point of a gun?

I hope this will just die out. There is just no chance that Skeptics Society, JREF, RDF and the like are going to officially sign up for Atheism+. Let Freethought Blogs drown in cyberspace.

If you are going to put me on your ignore list due to this post, please quote it and say so in this thread. Thank you.
 
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RebeccaBradley said:
Richard Carrier has now weighed in, with what amounts to an Atheism+ manifesto: http://freethoughtblogs.com/carrier/archives/2207/

He makes it abundantly clear that, if you are not willing to declare yourself an Atheist+ forthwith and unreservedly, you are a sexist, racist scumbag lacking in all reason, compassion and integrity. Though he does advocate giving such sorry excuses for humanity (ordinary atheists like me) one chance to repent our sins, telling his A+ readers to "...be empathic enough to assume at first that someone being an ignorant dufus is really just ignorant and misinformed, and not a douchebag; give them at least one shot at being educable, before kicking them into the sewers to wallow with their peeps."

The implication is, of course, that he and his A+ colleagues are the infallible arbiters of reason, compassion, and integrity.

Hmph.
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The best way to reach out to people who may disagree with you and possibly change their minds is to call them names and ignore them?

Yeah, that will work... :rolleyes:
 
Humes fork said:
On a more serious note, I get the impression that what they don't like is that there are so many atheists and skeptics and humanists who are white males. While I'm all for trying to attract all sorts of people to skepticism, to complain at the attendees that most people who show up on meetups and the like are white males is silly. The people who show up are the ones who are interested and for whom it is convenient. What do you suggest, forcing women and minorities to attend at the point of a gun?
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I've never understood this type of complaint (that not enough minorities are attending meetings, not you complaining about the complaint). First, it's simply racist--there's no other term for it. You're judging a movement as a failure because of race. Second, there are only three ways to fix it:

1) Keep old white men out,
2) Force other groups to attend,
3) Become interesting to other groups

For some reason, option #3 never seems to come to mind. Atheism+ chose #1.
 
Humes fork said:
While I'm all for trying to attract all sorts of people to skepticism, to complain at the attendees that most people who show up on meetups and the like are white males is silly. The people who show up are the ones who are interested and for whom it is convenient. What do you suggest, forcing women and minorities to attend at the point of a gun?
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Ok, seriousness then.

Obviously, the environment shouldn't be hostile to particular genders, ethnicities, etc. That's a given. And I'm pleased to see that the demographics at TAM at least have gotten more diverse.

That said, it always makes me a little uneasy (as one of those evil white males) when someone - whether a speaker or a friend in the bar - starts talking about how much "we" need to "include" and "draw in" women, minorities, etc. to the event or "movement". The intent is good, but man, does it come off as condescending. It almost sounds like women and non-whites need to be rescued, to be enlightened.

That kind of thinking is unintentionally disrespectful, I think, and it makes me kinda sad.
 
El_Spectre said:
Obviously, the environment shouldn't be hostile to particular genders, ethnicities, etc. That's a given.
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The problem arises when people take mere numbers as proof that the environment is hostile. It's a basic failure of logic--they've latched on to one pet hypothesis, and frequently refuse to even consider any others. In some cases, as Atheism+ demonstrates, this takes on a religious ferver, and can even turn violent (though this is, in my experience, usually limited to small-scale altercations).

Old white men dominate open atheists. Okay, that could mean there's a problem. The solution isn't to demand we fix it right now--the solution is to find out if there IS a problem first. It could very well be that there isn't--this could all be a statistical anomaly, or caused by some other factor none of us has considered yet. Atheism could be the most open and inviting group on the planet, embracing all colors, sexes, races, and genders, but it could still be dominated by one group because frankly more of that group are interested in what atheism is selling.
 
Ocelot said:
I've swung back and forth on whether @Atheism+ is parody or not. At least 90% seems pretty dead pan then they say something that seems so full of crazy you realise they can't be serious. But then you realise that the crazy thing didn't originate from @Atheism+ but was a retweet from Jen McCreight herself.
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Wow, seriously? For reals? How can anyone not read that Twitter account and see that it's parody? (In particular, it's a meanspirited parody of some of the ideas of third-wave feminism; that's why the Twitter account makes specific and frequent mention of "third-wave atheism." It even says so in the Twitter description.)

Folks....it's parody. It doesn't rise to the level of humor of the Landover Baptist Church Web site, and it's certainly nowhere near The Onion, but it's parody. It's not serious. Not a word of it. It's a reaction against complaints that the skeptic and atheist community is misogynistic, which deliberately borrows language from Third Wave feminism to attack people who complain about misogyny in the atheist community.

I happen to think it's poorly done; I do believe that the atheist and skeptic communities really do have a problem with misogyny. Obviously, the person or persons responsible for the Atheism+ Twitter feed disagree.
 
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