Atheism Plus/Free Thought Blogs (FTB)

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kbonn said:
I should be banned for demanding that the double standard at that place shouldn't apply to moderation? I had ZERO issue with not being in a secret forum or whatever, I just suggested that it shouldn't be used for mod discussion since there were non-mods in it. Then I insisted that they stop letting the in-group get away with things that everyone else can not. That justifies permanent banning?

And really? Ceepolk's "Your friend that told you this is really trying to hurt you, let me explain how we can save you, just tell me what I want to know" Gaslighting posts were "appropriate"?

That kool-aid must taste good.
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I don't know if you saw them at A+, or the comments on it earlier in this thread, but that coyote member had several posts which they self-edited, with a comment that they had been nudged to do so by a mod. This member is vicious, and yet other people were being censored and banned, while this one was in favour with, and protected by, one or more mods.

Disgusting.
 
squealpiggy said:
There's a difference here though. Nobody is saying that prior to joining in the discussion you MUST read the following. My suggestion was in response to the challenge to produce examples of problems with A Plus. Considering zzrhhee made this challenge in a thread about that very subject I thought my response was worthy.
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Phone post so I'll have to wait till much later to address all of you, but this seemes like a quick one I can touch on.

How is a basket of links with material substancially different from 120ish, and growing, pages of previous conversation? The links are at least orginized and don't expand by multiple pages daily. Since both groups of reading are directly relavent it seems quite hypocritical to damand one and deride the other.

As it happens, I had no basket when I joined A+ and I have read quite a lot of this thread, in the range of 40 to 50 pages. I'm happy to look up specifics though. Of course, since nothing is orginized it will take time.

Second and more general thought. I'm happy to talk at length about just about any topic but is there a policy here that has to keep it all on this thread? That would be very confusing to me. What about some threads specific to, say my elevatorgate vid since RP and I were talking about it and wanted to move the discussion, we can also hit shrodinger's rapist if you like or whatever but this thing is a monster of a thread.
 
Okay, I've given up on that thread, now. One poster said that if people were shouting profanities at them then they did what they would do in real life - ignore them. S/he was then told off for "tone policing" the swearer, "silencing" him/her (I thought they didn't advocate free speech?), and told that if they were being sworn at then it was most likely their fault for being so wrong that they've angered the person who is swearing.

Now, I have nothing against swearing. I swear like a trooper IRL, in environments where it's appropriate. I work in an industry where the air is commonly blue. It's fine. In fact, I much prefer it to working in an environment where I have to watch my mouth.

However, if I'm trying to make an argument for something, persuade someone of something and, most importantly, get someone to consider that they're wrong about something, then I don't think that telling them to "**** OFF" with the Caps Lock on is the best way to achieve that goal. The more reasonably you make your arguments, the more likely the person you're arguing with is to listen to them. And the responsibility for that is yours. You don't get to be abusive towards someone, then then claim prejudice if that stops them paying attention to you.

Which, again, is not to say that people shouldn't be free to yell "**** OFF" at each other all day long, should they so choose. It's just a question of what their goals in doing so are. If the goal is to increase the amount of social justice in the world, then I'd suggest that yelling "**** OFF" at people isn't the best way to achieve that.
 
Welcome to Atheism± Apos!

And please, just call me rp. I always feel guilty for having such a long nick when others type it out. As I said on YT, I think it would be instructive for all concerned to go back to the story that became the poster child of the A+ers; Elevator Guy. Whether fabricated or real is irrelevant for our purposes. What I am hoping to learn is how others view your analogy of the 2 men in the prison shower, and to see if they agree it equates with EG's inviting RW back to his room. Perhaps the line is thinner than I see it as being.

As I mentioned on YT, I do concede EG's request in those circumstances was inappropriate. It would have been less so had he asked her in the bar. Still, I think this falls far short of the intimidating situation you envisioned, but I remain open minded about it if others can show me differently.

Please watch Apostate's video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MbTkqq023nA and let us know if you think his thoughts on this event are realistic or flawed. For me it makes sense to try and establish some areas of agreement. And do remember only 2 who basically concur with the policies of A+ have been willing to come here and defend them. I think we should be respectful+ in responding to their views if we are to have any hope for mutual understanding. :)
 
recursive prophet said:
And please, just call me rp. I always feel guilty for having such a long nick when others type it out.
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I, on the other hand, would like to be addressed as "The Lord Most High, Master Of All History Surveys, His Majesty Squeegee Beckenheim, The Sexiest Man Alive, Whom We All Worship, And Whose Shadow We Are Not Fit To Lick, Forever And Ever, Men, Eh?"
 
ApostateltsopA said:
Phone post so I'll have to wait till much later to address all of you, but this seemes like a quick one I can touch on.
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Welcome back! Any and all participation is welcome.

How is a basket of links with material substancially different from 120ish, and growing, pages of previous conversation? The links are at least orginized and don't expand by multiple pages daily. Since both groups of reading are directly relavent it seems quite hypocritical to damand one and deride the other.
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That's a good point. I think it's a matter of degree.

Compare the A+ attitude about "101 material to the suggestions you received here.

Compare it also to the attitude at the Apollo Hoax forums: http://www.apollohoax.net/forum/

That's another discussion board with a lot of 101 material, that also regularly attracts trolls who don't bother to consume the 101 material before jumping right in and re-hashing old and long-debunked questions. But the members there are generally enthusiastic about re-teaching their 101 material to any and all comers.

But it's a matter of degree. You'll have to reach your own subjective conclusions.

As it happens, I had no basket when I joined A+ and I have read quite a lot of this thread, in the range of 40 to 50 pages. I'm happy to look up specifics though. Of course, since nothing is orginized it will take time.
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Well, if you've already read 40-50 pages, you've probably had a few specifics jump out at you already. If you like, you can safely start with one of those, and pick up the discussion wherever you happened to find it. Nobody here will jump down your throat or dogpile on you if the discussion has moved on. At worst, they'll try to bring you up to speed on the current state of play.

And of course, dissent from the thread's current body of "101 material" is welcome here.

Second and more general thought. I'm happy to talk at length about just about any topic but is there a policy here that has to keep it all on this thread? That would be very confusing to me. What about some threads specific to, say my elevatorgate vid since RP and I were talking about it and wanted to move the discussion, we can also hit shrodinger's rapist if you like or whatever but this thing is a monster of a thread.
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It's true: JREFF does spawn some monster threads from time to time. If you want to spin off a thread for a specific topic, I doubt anybody will complain. It happens here all the time.
 
ApostateltsopA said:
Second and more general thought. I'm happy to talk at length about just about any topic but is there a policy here that has to keep it all on this thread? That would be very confusing to me. What about some threads specific to, say my elevatorgate vid since RP and I were talking about it and wanted to move the discussion, we can also hit shrodinger's rapist if you like or whatever but this thing is a monster of a thread.
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Actually, we'd prefer if you have a specific topic to talk about, that you'd split it off to its own thread. If it's one that has it's own thread, don't be surprised if we merge it with the older thread.
Replying to this modbox in thread will be off topic  Posted By: kmortis
 
recursive prophet said:
And please, just call me rp. I always feel guilty for having such a long nick when others type it out. As I said on YT, I think it would be instructive for all concerned to go back to the story that became the poster child of the A+ers; Elevator Guy. Whether fabricated or real is irrelevant for our purposes. What I am hoping to learn is how others view your analogy of the 2 men in the prison shower, and to see if they agree it equates with EG's inviting RW back to his room. Perhaps the line is thinner than I see it as being.

As I mentioned on YT, I do concede EG's request in those circumstances was inappropriate. It would have been less so had he asked her in the bar. Still, I think this falls far short of the intimidating situation you envisioned, but I remain open minded about it if others can show me differently.

Please watch Apostate's video I CAN'T POST LINKS YET and let us know if you think his thoughts on this event are realistic or flawed. For me it makes sense to try and establish some areas of agreement. And do remember only 2 who basically concur with the policies of A+ have been willing to come here and defend them. I think we should be respectful+ in responding to their views if we are to have any hope for mutual understanding. :)
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Frankly, I am amazed by the first portion of the video. Either I missed it, or AA never even brought up the fact that they were in an elevator, and that being in the elevator would be an issue. For me, it is the main problem.

Honestly, it was a proposition, but it was subtle, it wasn't lewd, and when RW declined he dropped it. Isn't that the way it is supposed to happen?

The biggest issue was that it was in an enclosed space. Rebecca had every right to tell her (male) audience not to do that. It was a request made that she didn't like, so she instructed her audience not to do it. That's it. No reason to make more of it then that. The reaction was much more the story.
The idea that all the unsavory comments were left by only atheists/skeptics is laughable.


What Dawkins said was a bit silly, however I see many people using exactly the same argument whenever men complain about certain issues. "Dear Muslima" and "What about Teh MEnz" are the same argument. It didn't work for Dawkins, but somehow, I haven't see you make a video about the FtB/A+ members who use the same argument all the time.

"You have no right to complain about X because group Y has to deal with Z!!!!" Terrible when *they* do it, totally fine when *We* do it.
 
kmortis said:
Actually, we'd prefer if you have a specific topic to talk about, that you'd split it off to its own thread. If it's one that has it's own thread, don't be surprised if we merge it with the older thread.
Replying to this modbox in thread will be off topic  Posted By: kmortis
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Of course, this is another difference here - it's completely transparent when a mod is speaking as a forum member, and when they're speaking as a mod.
 
kbonn said:
The biggest issue was that it was in an enclosed space. Rebecca had every right to tell her (male) audience not to do that. It was a request made that she didn't like, so she instructed her audience not to do it. That's it. No reason to make more of it then that. The reaction was much more the story.
The idea that all the unsavory comments were left by only atheists/skeptics is laughable.
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See, here's the thing: She didn't just tell her audience not to do that. She made it the stepping-stone for an indictment of schroedinger's rapist, and excuse to demonize men in general.

I mean, the actual incident itself was an utterly trivial instance of social awkwardness. Maybe a decent stand-up comedian could get a small laugh out of it. Or a public speaker breaking the ice with an amusing anecdote before promptly moving on to the non-sexist, non-SJW topic they were actually there to speak about.

"A guy asked me out for coffee last night. In an elevator. I politely turned him down, and now he's stuck there for, like twenty more floors. I mean, what was his exit strategy? Mash all the buttons in a blind panic? Protip: Don't come on to people in elevators. It's just that much more awkward for everybody when you get turned down.

"Anyway, today I'm going to talk about a skeptical approach to modern normative ethics..."
 
chillzero said:
I don't know if you saw them at A+, or the comments on it earlier in this thread, but that coyote member had several posts which they self-edited, with a comment that they had been nudged to do so by a mod. This member is vicious, and yet other people were being censored and banned, while this one was in favour with, and protected by, one or more mods.

Disgusting.
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Right, TLC and Setar were/are have the longest leash of all of them.
 
Errr but umm... word to the wise regarding moving posts to AAH and therefore having a poster receive a mod notification in their inbox, lest someone ends up in the fetal position with dribble running down their chin, don't do that.

:boxedin:
 
Krikkiter said:
Errr but umm... word to the wise regarding moving posts to AAH and therefore having a poster receive a mod notification in their inbox, lest someone ends up in the fetal position with dribble running down their chin, don't do that.

:boxedin:
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I shudder to think what might happen if they got an actual infraction. The mind boggles.
 
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