Atheism Plus/Free Thought Blogs (FTB)

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qwints said:
I also think there's a need for spaces that shut out some voices to allow those marginalized in open forums to be heard.
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How does someone become "marginalized in open forums"? And how does shutting up other voices allow them to become heard?

I don't see how this applies to a web forum.
 
qwints...you're getting there :)

The swearing really has very little to do with it the focus is on the abuse and argument by personal attack MO that defines A+ culture. A+ itself is hung up on the idea that their critics are hung up on the swearing as well while being blind to the fact that they're abusive.

Passion has very little bearing on critical thinking, after all I've never heard anyone accuse a truther of being dispassionate. For an A+ example see Setar's current thread where he tries to paint Canada as a "police state" based on transit rider fare checks and some "passionate" article on the police.

I wonder what your average North Korean would think of Setar's assessment about living in a police state ? Righteously indignant ?
 
Stout said:
qwints...you're getting there :)

The swearing really has very little to do with it the focus is on the abuse and argument by personal attack MO that defines A+ culture. A+ itself is hung up on the idea that their critics are hung up on the swearing as well while being blind to the fact that they're abusive.

Passion has very little bearing on critical thinking, after all I've never heard anyone accuse a truther of being dispassionate. For an A+ example see Setar's current thread where he tries to paint Canada as a "police state" based on transit rider fare checks and some "passionate" article on the police.

I wonder what your average North Korean would think of Setar's assessment about living in a police state ? Righteously indignant ?
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And you'll likely just be accused of channeling Dawkins' "Dear Muslima" meme. ;)

I've lived in Canada and I've lived in countries during periods of marshal law. (Heck, I was living in Canada when Trudeau invoked the WMA, come to think of it.)

Has anyone noticed the massive drop in postings. After the Wind excitement died down, apparently more and more people are getting the message. I hope that they're now content in their little coccoon. They're down to something around 5 posts an hour over the past 24 hours. I'll have to go back and check, but not on the JREF Forums, but ONLY IN THIS THREAD, I think there are more posts in 24 hours than the entire A+ forums.

ETA: No. It's about half (this thread) of their total posts. (approx 50 in this thread and approx 100 over there)
 
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Foolmewunz said:
And you'll likely just be accused of channeling Dawkins' "Dear Muslima" meme. ;)

I've lived in Canada and I've lived in countries during periods of marshal law. (Heck, I was living in Canada when Trudeau invoked the WMA, come to think of it.)

Has anyone noticed the massive drop in postings. After the Wind excitement died down, apparently more and more people are getting the message. I hope that they're now content in their little coccoon. They're down to something around 5 posts an hour over the past 24 hours. I'll have to go back and check, but not on the JREF Forums, but ONLY IN THIS THREAD, I think there are more posts in 24 hours than the entire A+ forums.

ETA: No. It's about half (this thread) of their total posts. (approx 50 in this thread and approx 100 over there)
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The Central Scrutinizer said:
The sad part is that most of these emotionally stunted 'tards will ever actually go to a skeptics conference. They're not safe zones, you see. Women who do go are routinely raped.

I do hope at least one does show up. I'd like to point and laugh in person.
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Yeah there is that. But you know they'll talk a lot about wanting to go to a conference but in the end they won't be able to because <insert stupid excuse>

Like the time the A+ers all banded together to try to get some donations to the families of the victims of the shootings in the States. Well, they tried really hard but apparently someone else was already doing it so....
 
Stout said:
qwints...you're getting there :)
The swearing really has very little to do with it the focus is on the abuse and argument by personal attack MO that defines A+ culture. A+ itself is hung up on the idea that their critics are hung up on the swearing as well while being blind to the fact that they're abusive.
Click to expand...

I actually agree that the latter is a problem. I think it's a result of so many critics focusing on the mere fact of profanity or anger rather than addressing abuse.


Foolmewunz said:
The RP lesson is that one with fewer stripes can't claim to be triggered by irrational angry posts if the one making the irrational angry post is part of the Old Xi Network and can trump that claim with being triggered by people refusing to respond to their acrimony.
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Do you understand what people mean when they say they're being triggered? recursive prophet's post seemed to be mocking the very idea of being triggered as well making clear he didn't believe the people who said that receiving unsolicited pms was painful to them.

Foolmewunz said:
You seem to be enjoying a rather free conversation here with a number of people who are rather against your safe harbor, ... Isn't this both more conducive to making progress and getting your message out than hovering in an echo chamber of holier-than-thou sycophants? Isn't the conversation here actually more "enjoyable"?
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This space is much more conducive to an exchange between people who have very fundamental disagreements. I'm glad it exists. I admire people who have the patience to continue discussions with people who repeat long debunked arguments. atheismplus allows me to better hear people who might be silenced in an environment like this.
 
Maybe they'll have a special conference of their own.
I hear they're working on the Conference Official Safety Policy.
First draft will be ready about 2033.
 
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Rrose Selavy said:
Maybe they'll have a special conference of their own.
I hear they're working on the Conference Official Safety Policy.
First draft will be ready about 2033.
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:D

Everyone will be required to be in plastic bubbles... wearing blindfolds and with earplugs. That way no-one will be offended by anything.
 
The Central Scrutinizer said:
The sad part is that most of these emotionally stunted 'tards will ever actually go to a skeptics conference. They're not safe zones, you see. Women who do go are routinely raped.

I do hope at least one does show up. I'd like to point and laugh in person.
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No need to be so aggressive. Just wear an innocuous t-shirt and they'll flee in tears.

I understand that Skepchick has a cafepress account. It would make such an action be all the more ironic.
 
qwints said:
I actually agree that the latter is a problem. I think it's a result of so many critics focusing on the mere fact of profanity or anger rather than addressing abuse.
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Blaming the victim?

Do you understand what people mean when they say they're being triggered? recursive prophet's post seemed to be mocking the very idea of being triggered as well making clear he didn't believe the people who said that receiving unsolicited pms was painful to them.
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Well, while we're on the topic, do you really believe it is a problem? There are actually people who would be out of action for days, I believe it was claimed, simply because they received an unexpected PM?
This space is much more conducive to an exchange between people who have very fundamental disagreements. I'm glad it exists. I admire people who have the patience to continue discussions with people who repeat long debunked arguments. atheismplus allows me to better hear people who might be silenced in an environment like this.
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Sorry, you've lost me. Which people are they? The only people who get silenced here are those who break the MA. Opinions and beliefs may be challenged, but they are not forbidden.
 
Rrose Selavy said:
Maybe they'll have a special conference of their own.
I hear they're working on the Conference Official Safety Policy.
First draft will be ready about 2033.
Click to expand...

Krikkiter said:
:D

Everyone will be required to be in plastic bubbles... wearing blindfolds and with earplugs. That way no-one will be offended by anything.
Click to expand...

It will be like this, only not as funny.
 
qwints said:
I also think there's a need for spaces that shut out some voices to allow those marginalized in open forums to be heard.
Click to expand...


I think this is the biggest issue I have with Atheism+ and the stark difference between its claimed aims and its apparent ones: the forums appear to be a haven for those who believe they have been marginalized by society, rather than those who actualyl have been.
 
zooterkin said:
Well, while we're on the topic, do you really believe it is a problem? There are actually people who would be out of action for days, I believe it was claimed, simply because they received an unexpected PM?
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I don't.

Especially since it takes exactly 3 clicks to disable receiving PMs on a PHPBB forum.
Go to user Control Panel, then board preferences, then click "no" in the button that asks "Allow users to send you private messages".
Uploading an avatar is considerably more difficult.

So, I think it has nothing at all to do with PMs inducing anxiety attacks. This is about limiting the communication options of non-inner-group members.
 
qwints said:
This space is much more conducive to an exchange between people who have very fundamental disagreements. I'm glad it exists. I admire people who have the patience to continue discussions with people who repeat long debunked arguments. atheismplus allows me to better hear people who might be silenced in an environment like this.
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Huh? Do you want to hear people who refuse to abide by the Membership Agreement? That's the only thing that gets people banned here. Unlike A+, no one gets banned here by the hair-trigger sensitivities of the thought police.

You can hear arguments/points from KellyB here. There? Not so much, since she's made the target list and will be shouted down if she shows herself.

Or did you mean that you have a need to hear foul language and ad hom attacks? Those aren't allowed here.

But differing views? We've got Holocaust Deniers, racists, Nazis, 911 Conspiradroids, Fundies, bigfooters, Apollo hoaxers, theists of every stripe, liberals, conservatives, anarchists, communists, libertarians, Libertarians, and just about every position you can think of on any topic. Trolling is not a bannable offense, either. So who, over there (other than the ones who can't control their potty-mouths) would be unable to speak out in a forum as open to differing opinions as this one?

And please don't try to sell me that "ooh, I'm so sensitive" crap. (The argument goes,... well there are misogynists over there and I just can't deal with that sort of oppression.) Puh-lease! These are warriors for Social Justice and they can't deal with a Neanderthal making boob jokes? Even numerous Neanderthals making numerous boob jokes? Ya gotta wonder what would've happened with the SCLC if King had said, "Oooh, I can't deal with the oppression of police dogs and fire hoses. Let's stay here and discuss things in the church instead of marching this week."

Here's my bottom line on A+... If the members want a safe space and to dwell in an echo chamber with mutual hugs (if you want them) and back-patting, that's fine. And if they want to limit it to their own little circle of 301 level uber members, that's fine, too. But make it a closed community like many "professional" boards. Make it so you can't go past the welcome page or index if you're not a member and put as many restrictions you want on membership. That's their right and if that's what they want, then I have no say on the topic, whatsoever. But if they announce themselves as a forum, that connotes the exchange of ideas and someone ought to be out there trying to figure out how to best go about exchanging ideas with all levels of posters, including (IMHO) neophytes, apprentices, journeymen, and even people who disagree with them.
 
Must say reading this thread this morning has blown my mind in so many ways. I have many quotes I'll be posting later today, but for now will limit it to the ones below and this observation. I had never even read anything in this forum until being made aware of this thread by Sun Countess at A+. ALL my time at JREF previously was spent in science and later forum management.

It should come as no surprise those participating in a forum like this would be more adept at articulation and rhetoric than the science crowd. The latter isn't exactly renowned for their communication skills. Still, I'm stunned to see just how much better quite a few of those here are at formulating and expressing their positions. Myriad is one of those exceptions who is bilingual ; math and language. No big surprise there, but reading so many in one thread who can express so much in so few words is awesome and has made my morning. Many thanks.

Foolmewunz said:
You seem to be enjoying a rather free conversation here with a number of people who are rather against your safe harbor, but who do not fly off the handle and make suggestions as to which carnal acts you should go perform on yourself because you support a site that breeches our own requirement of free exchange of ideas and open discussion on just about any topic. Isn't this both more conducive to making progress and getting your message out than hovering in an echo chamber of holier-than-thou sycophants? Isn't the conversation here actually more "enjoyable"?
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Of course it is Fool, that's why she's been spending a lot more time posting here than she ever did at A+. I believe I've pointed this out before, along with the rapidly declining numbers at A+. We might now be in the process of writing their requiem. :)

qwints said:
Do you understand what people mean when they say they're being triggered? recursive prophet's post seemed to be mocking the very idea of being triggered as well making clear he didn't believe the people who said that receiving unsolicited pms was painful to them.
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Show me where I ever questioned the trigger concept or 'made clear' unsolicited PM's couldn't be painful to anyone. When you make charges like this they should be accompanied with links to where I made the comments. You've been called out many times for that qwints. You have ignored many questions I've put to you, and have yet to present a plausible explanation for how seeing the PM request in public wouldn't also trigger someone like SC. I suggested a poll-remember? To determine if there was anyone other than SC, who had them blocked anyway, that would find a PM harmful. Also explain why when by just blocking PM's the paranoid would never even know someone sent one. As opposed to seeing it in public. Please do galsplain me that one. :p
 
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