Atheism Plus/Free Thought Blogs (FTB)

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I rarely see things eye to eye with you, but here I fully agree.

From @Atheism_plus - I think a legitimate rather than parody account.

"@TimNeale65 mens rights are for the most part already assured. Campaigning for them usually means, in reality, campaigning against women"

That's the pernicious side of the privilege concept. It presupposes that rather than groups having various privileges, that there's a simple hierarchy, and that the people on top of the hierarchy inherently cannot be disadvantaged in any way, and particularly not by their classification.
 
Anyone read Carrier's books? I don't mind intellectual arrogance when it's earned, but those must be some fine books he wrote?

I haven't read them but I know a little.

He believes in objective morality. See his discussion with Sean Carroll in the comment section. He is also a fan of Sam Harris' ideas on objective morality.

He is also a bit of a pusher for Jesus mythicism, and his latest idea on the matter is that Bayes' theorem shows Jesus didn't exist or something like that.
 
Well to be fair the speakers also include Sean Carroll and Matt Dillahunty.


Dillahunty is firmly in the Skepchick/FTB camp.


It's part of the deal, apparently.


Yes, indeed.

Unfortunately due to the increasing demands of work and income I can no longer speak for free. For any speaking engagement I require expenses, a $200 honorarium, and an opportunity to sell my books at your event.
 
From @Atheism_plus - I think a legitimate rather than parody account.

"@TimNeale65 mens rights are for the most part already assured. Campaigning for them usually means, in reality, campaigning against women"

That's the pernicious side of the privilege concept. It presupposes that rather than groups having various privileges, that there's a simple hierarchy, and that the people on top of the hierarchy inherently cannot be disadvantaged in any way, and particularly not by their classification.


This is true.

On the more practical side, blanket opposition to all men's rights interests by women's rights groups appears to rely on the vain hope that people who accept the claim that women are inherently more capable of raising children will also accept the claim that, apart from that and actual child bearing, men and women are equally capable in all other important aspects of life.

Respectfully,
Myriad
 
Anyone read Carrier's books? I don't mind intellectual arrogance when it's earned, but those must be some fine books he wrote?


I haven't read Richard Carrier's books (except for the beginning of Bayes' Theorem and the Quest for the Historical Jesus), but I have met him (Richard, not Jesus) and talked with him one-on-one, and his online and in-person personae are quite different. In person he doesn't come off as arrogant at all, as he often seems to online; he's personable, he listens, and above all, he's incredibly knowledgeable. So, I'd have to say that the online arrogance is earned, though I'd enjoy his online writing more if he would make his points less imperiously.

Jay
 
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I haven't read Richard Carrier's books (except for the beginning of Bayes' Theorem and the Quest for the Historical Jesus), but I have met him (Richard, not Jesus) and talked with him one-on-one, and his online and in-person personae are quite different. In person he doesn't come off as arrogant at all, as he often seems to online; he's personable, he listens, and above all, he's incredibly knowledgeable. So, I'd have to say that the online arrogance is earned, though I'd enjoy his online writing more if he would make his points less imperiously.

Jay

That's one of the features of this kind of debacle. Basically decent people tearing at each other over nuances. If Carrier has a pompous public persona, that may be due to shyness rather than arrogance.
 
That's one of the features of this kind of debacle. Basically decent people tearing at each other over nuances. If Carrier has a pompous public persona, that may be due to shyness rather than arrogance.

Or he could be just be an irritating, self-righteous know-it all. ;)
 
Have you heard about the revolutionary new Skepticism + ?

We require Others to employ reason and provide evidence (that's the skeptic-y part).

Plus, We get a free pass from being questioned and thereby victimized (that's the plus-y part).

If you act now and get in on the ground floor, you will also receive bonus Shunning Privileges!

This offer not available in stores.
 
Have you heard about the revolutionary new Skepticism + ?

We require Others to employ reason and provide evidence (that's the skeptic-y part).

Plus, We get a free pass from being questioned and thereby victimized (that's the plus-y part).

If you act now and get in on the ground floor, you will also receive bonus Shunning Privileges!

This offer not available in stores.
 
Or he could be just be an irritating, self-righteous know-it all. ;)

That's certainly his public persona, but I'm quite prepared to give him the benefit of the doubt when chatting in private. Not that that lets him off the hook.
 
Have you heard about the revolutionary new Skepticism + ?

We require Others to employ reason and provide evidence (that's the skeptic-y part).

Plus, We get a free pass from being questioned and thereby victimized (that's the plus-y part).

If you act now and get in on the ground floor, you will also receive bonus Shunning Privileges!

This offer not available in stores.

A post so nice you posted it twice.:)
 
Have you heard about the revolutionary new Skepticism + ?

We require Others to employ reason and provide evidence (that's the skeptic-y part).

Plus, We get a free pass from being questioned and thereby victimized (that's the plus-y part).

If you act now and get in on the ground floor, you will also receive bonus Shunning Privileges!

This offer not available in stores.

Have you heard about the revolutionary new Anti-theism + ?

We require theists of all persuasions to STFU and stop meddling in our lives until they can provide ANY evidence that isn't demonstrably stupid (that's the anti-theism-y part).

Plus, we get a free pass from being questioned and thereby victimized (that's the plus-y part).

If you act now and get in on the ground floor, you will also receive bonus Steak Knives and a 12-month supply of babies!

This offer not available in stores.
 
So Pharyngula has a lengthy post about Atheism Plus following some sort of Google+ discussion. The blog post includes this exchange (PZ Myers' response in bold text):

"My whole point is that not everyone dismissed as a “misogynist” or “hate and rage filled *******” by the Atheism+ crowd is actually anything of the kind. Sometimes that kind of response is aimed at people who simply have a reasonable disagreement with them, rather than the genuine trolls who are sending threats and abuse."

We get that a lot. In fact, I’d say it’s the source of most of the anti-atheist+ reaction: It’s a whole lot of cranky people saying that they aren’t sexist at all…they just think it’s fine to call women “c- [rule 10]”, that Jim Jeffries is a hilarious comedian when he riffs on his contempt for women, that they just hate feminists, that we’re all just killjoys and cockblockers who want to interfere with their right to hit on women whenever they feel like it. But oh, no, they’re not misogynists. How dare we challenge their masculine privilege?

http://freethoughtblogs.com/pharyngula/2012/08/27/following-up-on-last-nights-atheism-discussion/

"We get that a lot, people who say we accuse anyone who doesn't agree with us of misogyny. That's because they are misogynists!"

I don't use gender slurs, I have never heard comedian Jim Jeffries and I have no real strong opinions on feminists. But apparently the crime of thinking that this Atheism+ thing is half-baked and embarrassing (just like "brights" - see, I can criticize old white men too! Oh wait, PZ Myers is what?) makes me a torrid hater of women.

Vive le révolution?
 
It’s a whole lot of cranky people saying that they aren’t sexist at all
Sexism is discrimination based on sex (generally accepted to exclude things like who you want to sleep with--no one would call a heterosexual male sexist, for example--and generally only applied to sexism against women). If you don't discriminate on the basis of sex, you're not a sexist. It's really that simple.

they just think it’s fine to call women “c- [rule 10]”
I didn't know that everyone did. In certain circles I'm fine with it--you get a bunch of people drinking and playing poker and things get said that are unthinkable outside of those conditions, by the men and women of the group--but generally I try to not refer to people by their sexual organs. Yet I still object to Atheism+.

that Jim Jeffries is a hilarious comedian when he riffs on his contempt for women
Not familiar with this guy, but in fairness I'm not a huge fan of comedians and stand-up comedy.

that they just hate feminists
This is nothing more than an attempt to poison the well regarding any criticisms of Feminism--something that a rabid anti-theist like Dr. Myers should know better than to do.

that we’re all just killjoys and cockblockers who want to interfere with their right to hit on women whenever they feel like it.
Again, this is nothing more than poisoning the well against any criticisms against Feminism.

As far as hitting on women goes, I acknowledge that women have an apparently greater risk of sexual assualt in our culture than men ("apparently greater" because no hard data on this exists, at least as far as I know--it's widely acknowledged that sexual assualts on males go largely unreported). However, there's a difference between a guy who's guilty of sexual assault and a guy who's guilty of being socially inept. A charge of sexual assualt can ruin a person's life--don't we owe it to them to make sure they're actually guilty before we convict them? If they are guilty, yeah, castrate 'em--but it's not sexist at all to argue that we should be sure they're guilty of an actual crime, rather than simply being inept, prior to doing that.

But oh, no, they’re not misogynists. How dare we challenge their masculine privilege?
I lose more and more respect for Dr. Myers every time he opens his mouth about sex. I guess looking at the other side in a rational manner, trying to understand what they're actually saying (because none of it is this bovine by-product straw-man he's set up), and responding to that is simply too "misogynistic" for him. :rolleyes:
 
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