Atheism and kids

[Nucular]

When my nephew was very small, he started coming home from school talking about things like Noah's Ark and Adam & Eve, having been actualy taught them as fact! This p*ssed me off enough to drum into him that "that's what some people believe, but I don't and here's why".

As he grew up a bit more, I realised, like you, that atheism had stuck, but that this might mean that he wasn't thinking it through for himself. So I sat down with him quite a lot, and read him lots of stories from lots of different religions (Viking myths were his favourite), and told him that some people believed these things, and some people didn't, but that the important thing was to think about it and make your own mind up. He did, and remained an atheist. He's fourteen now, and, I hope, still, thinks that kind of thing through.

There's a brilliant letter written by Richard Dawkins to his young daughter on this subject, published in various places; it might also be on the net. The basic point is, never assume someone's right just because of who they are, including me.

 

[Dylab]

I found the url for Dawkins letter here.

 

[reprise]

My 11 year old has fasted at Ramadan for the last few years and wants to be baptised in the Anglican church next year when she turns 13. My 17 year old quite often reads the Bible when she's having a tough time. My 23 year old, although an atheist, believes that an "afterlife" of some kind exists.

It isn't my responsibility to decide for my children what they will believe. My responsibility is to teach them to think critically when evaluating the claims made by those who practise aprticular belief systems (this is as true of political and philosophical belief systems as of religious ones).

I think that the only mainstream religion which hasn't been explored by at least one of my children is Judaism, and that's only because we don't know any Jewish people.

I often think that my 23 year old parrots my political beliefs, rather than arriving at similar positions to mine on things political for his own reasons. It really annoys him when I tear apart his position on a particular issue on which he agrees with me - he's rapidly learning that even when our conclusions are in agreement, his conclusion isn't worth a damn unless he can defend it with solid reasoning.

Seriously Denise, I don't think being exposed to many religions has hurt my children at all. Very often they have been attracted primarily to the rituals of a particular religion or they have wanted to share an aspect of a friend's life which is important to that friend, but I've never really seen any indication that their exposure to religion has been likely to lead to them being indoctrinated.

Also, get your daughter involved in a debating team. Having to convincingly argue a position in which you do not personally believe is a great way of clarifying what you do believe and why.

 

[Brown]

I want her to arrive at a decision herself without feeling that I am forcing my opinion upon her, but I also do not want her to go to a religious institution to learn religion because I am afraid of indoctrination. I'm talking about the peer pressure etc.

So how do I help her to arrive at her own opinion? I don't again want a child that just repeats what her parent thinks. I want to encourage her to think.

What follows is an opinion of a non-parent. (I am, however, a former child.)

Without discussing a particular religion, it may be possible to discuss what standards a religion should have. Some people are simply brought up into a particular religion, and the notion of whether or not the religion meets certain standards is simply omitted.

For example, can it be agreed that any religion worth following ought to allow people to raise questions? May questions be raised about history, ethics, self-consistency and science? Some religions actually encourage people to reaise such questions, and others actively discourage the practice. Perhaps you and your daughter could reach an agreement that any religion worth following would allow this sort of freedom.

Can it be agreed that any religion worth following should have the highest moral code, and that it should not condone cruelty or hypocrisy?

Can it be agreed that any religion worth following should not based upon the leadership of a single person?

Can it be agreed that any religion worth following should not make claims that are demonstrably false?

Can it be agreed that any religion worth following should not proclaim something right or wrong merely because some deity supposedly said so? In other words, can it be agreed that matters of right and wrong must be decided upon their merits, and not merely on the basis of pronouncements from a book or prominent person (who claim to speak on behalf of the deity)?

Some might say that no religion could meet such standards, but this is not so.

 

[bpesta22]

I found the url for Dawkins letter here.

Interesting letter for a 10 year old. Isn't Dawkins committing a fallacy here:

" Scientists - the specialists in discovering what is true about the world and the universe - often work like detectives. They make a guess ( called a hypothesis ) about what might be true. They then say to themselves: If that were really true, we ought to see so-and-so. This is called a prediction. For example, if the world is really round, we can predict that a traveller, going on and on in the same direction, should eventually find himself back where he started.When a doctor says that you have the measles, he doesn't take one look at you and see measles. His first look gives him a hypothesis that you may have measles. Then he says to himself: If she has measles I ought to see......


Isn't this the fallacy of affirming the consequent:

If theory X is true, Y should happen.

Y happens,

So, X is true.

Sorry to derail the thread, but it struck me as odd that someone like Dawkins would seemingly commit this fallacy.

Denise:

I only offer my views on God when someone else tries to offer their beliefs as true.

For example, I recently had to explain the absurdity of Noah's ark to my ten year old step daugher, who assumed it was true because her aunt said it was.

B

 

[swstephe]

noah's daughters

My daughter, at 7 years old, asked me about Noah taking two of every kind, then immediately sacrificing some birds in thanks, (didn't he make them extinct), I added on that in another verse, he sacrifices 7 of every clean animal. The reason usually given is that the 2-animals had babies while on the Ark, which sounds silly if you know how long it takes to raise a chick. I guess I raised my daughters with a skeptical mind.

 

[Correa Neto]

My personal experience may be usefull for you. I belive that exposing children to information is the right way to go. They are intelligent (usually more then we think they are- they surprise us quite often, don´t they?) and deserve to be treated accordingly. Children are formed by the influence of their parents and community- if you live close to very religious persons your daughter will be somehow influenced by religion.

My mother is a religious person (not a fundamentalist), but she decided that I should be allowed to choose if I wanted to follow (or not) a given religion. For example, I was not bapthized (despite protests from other family members). She provided me a childhood environment where information regarding all topics (even the delicate ones that some people avoid talking about with people, such as sex and religion) was avalible. During my childhood and teen-years (which unfortunately are several years behind now) I had access to several religious texts (spanning from the Bible to Allan Kardec´s works, passing thorugh many oriental texts and so on - and yes, fundamentalist texts also, thanks to my grandmother - these were the source of many nightmares to me) and their various interpretations. At the same time, I had access to science books and texts (designed for children, of course). And she never avoided the troublesome topics. When she did not knew enough about the subject or if it was too controversial, she would tell me so. In my late teen years, I toyed with some religions, and never found one that sounded OK to me, one that could really account for the universe and life, and found that they all ultimately fail. And, after some time, I decided that becoming an agnostic person was my best shot.

Your daughter does not know (yet) the exact implications of her statement. She may (and most likely will) change her mind after some time (chances are this will happen more than just one time), but since she has and will continue to have free acces to information, she will find her way, choosing what suits her the best. Keep on providing information and having lenghty open discussions with her about all issues and she will eventually be able to understand and decide what she thinks about this and other issues.

I wish more children in the world were raised like that.