Atheism & agnosticism

[Schrodinger's Cat]

Who killed the most people, in the atheist v. theist sense, is an exercise in foolish argument. The religion or lack thereof in the 20th century of a nation's leaders and its people had little to do with any conflict, as can be found in any basic history text.

For example, Hitler didn't kill Jews and others for their religious belief, he believed them to be an inferior species detrimental to the German nation. Stalin didn't implement farm collectives and prison camps because farmers were religious and he was not, he did it to try and push Russia into his socialist ideal. World War I and II were not fought for religious reasons, they was fought for nationalist ones. These conflicts and policies resulted in tens of millions of deaths--and none of them can be attributed to religion or lack thereof.

This

 

[Beth]

First, I am not familiar with the term "four humours" of health and illness. But I assume you are referring to Homo-sapiens here on Earth? Then you refer to an "entity" elsewhere in the universe that is not homo-sapien? Huh? I fail to see your analogy.



Not familiar with the term "four elements' either. Sorry. I'm saying that if an atheist completely denies the existence of a supreme being (a God like entity) in the universe, it would behoove themselves to conduct proper due diligence and go out and search said universe before coming to such a position of denial. Until that search is conducted, IMO, one cannot dismiss the possbility of a "God" , given the vast quantity of traces of wonderous complexity we call the universe.

I don't know what the four humors refers to, but the four elements are earth, air, fire and water. We now know them as the various states of matter: solid, gas, plasma and fluids.

 

[fls]

First, I am not familiar with the term "four humours" of health and illness.

Does that matter? I'm pretty sure you wouldn't let me get away with something like, "I haven't heard of this God dude, so he must not exist."

But I assume you are referring to Homo-sapiens here on Earth? Then you refer to an "entity" elsewhere in the universe that is not homo-sapien? Huh? I fail to see your analogy.

What's that got to do with it? Some entity hiding out in a deep, dark corner of the universe, about which we know nothing, obviously wouldn't be God, either. But according to your rules, that's not sufficient to dismiss the idea and move on to something else.

Not familiar with the term "four elements' either. Sorry. I'm saying that if an atheist completely denies the existence of a supreme being (a God like entity) in the universe, it would behoove themselves to conduct proper due diligence and go out and search said universe before coming to such a position of denial. Until that search is conducted, IMO, one cannot dismiss the possbility of a "God" , given the vast quantity of traces of wonderous complexity we call the universe.

Are there actually any atheists who dismiss the possibility of a god in the way that you describe? I've not seen any. Is it possible that you're just making this up?

Linda

 

[Third Eye Open]

Are there actually any atheists who dismiss the possibility of a god in the way that you describe? I've not seen any. Is it possible that you're just making this up?

Linda

But! But! If they didn't do that I wouldn't be able to call them close minded! Or accuse them of having their own religion!

 

[yomero]

But! But! If they didn't do that I wouldn't be able to call them close minded! Or accuse them of having their own religion!

Or call them shrill, strident and angry.

 

[Lord Emsworth]

Are there actually any atheists who dismiss the possibility of a god in the way that you describe? I've not seen any. Is it possible that you're just making this up?

I would claim that a search of the universe is irrelevant to the God question. And that, if you are a (strong) atheist already, a search of the universe is not going to contradict you. Likewise, theists will hardly feel contradicted by an 'unsuccessful' search of the (rest of the) universe for any Gods.

 

[easycruise]

Some entity hiding out in a deep, dark corner of the universe, about which we know nothing, obviously wouldn't be God, either.

Surely you realize that you can't be sure of that.

Are there actually any atheists who dismiss the possibility of a god in the way that you describe? I've not seen any.

I've seen plenty. Exactly how do you think I'm "describing" God? Maybe the confusion is on your end? The Notes section of this link is chock full of sources..

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atheism#cite_note-RoweRoutledge-0

I would claim that a search of the universe is irrelevant to the God question.

How can it be irrelevant? Universe is a big place. Lots of places for a "God" to exist.

And that, if you are a (strong) atheist already, a search of the universe is not going to contradict you.

Sure it could contradict you. It's called a fact finding mission. How can you be so sure? Sounds like the "strong atheist" you describe likes to wear blinders and is not open minded at all. Sounds similar to religious fanatics.

Religious fanatics..."I know there is a God in the universe somewhere and I don't have to search the universe in order to believe it".

Atheists..."I know there isn't any God in the universe anywhere and I don't have to search the universe in order to believe it".

 

[Sledge]

Surely you realize that you can't be sure of that.

Yes. Yes we can. See, your God (with a capital "G") is given all sorts of attributes: he is all powerful, everywhere at once, loves us all, etc. A god (with a lower case "g") cannot meet those requirements. It isn't everywhere because it's hiding somewhere. It doesn't have infinite love for us as it plainly doesn't care about us. So we might find something that would be called a god, but we're never going to find your God. Do you understand?

 

[fls]

Surely you realize that you can't be sure of that.

If whatever it is that we have been calling God is responsible for whatever it is that we have been attributing to God, then it can't be said that this entity is unknown to us. And if you want to say that this entity is unknown to us, then whatever it is that we have been calling God and attributing to God would not have been due to this entity.

I've seen plenty. Exactly how do you think I'm "describing" God?

I'm sorry. I realize it could be read both ways, but the word "describe" applies to "dismiss the possibility". Even in the notes section you refer to, nobody seems to be dismissing entities about which nothing is known. They seem to refer specifically to gods which form the basis of specific religions and which are given specific attributes or are responsible for specific functions (such as creation). Nobody seems to be offering an opinion on an entity which has nothing to do with anything we have so far observed or nothing to do with offering an explanation as to creation.

Linda

 

[Lord Emsworth]

How can it be irrelevant? Universe is a big place. Lots of places for a "God" to exist.

No. Just in the same way that you are not going to search your harddrive for your carkeys. Even if it is yet so big.

Sure it could contradict you. It's called a fact finding mission. How can you be so sure? Sounds like the "strong atheist" you describe likes to wear blinders and is not open minded at all. Sounds similar to religious fanatics.

Religious fanatics..."I know there is a God in the universe somewhere and I don't have to search the universe in order to believe it".

Sorry, religious people - fanatical or otherwise - only rarely claim that God could be found to exist in some place within this universe.

Now you can again try to tell me why I should expect to find God in some place somewhere within this universe.

(Or more accurately, why I should expect to find God in some places more than other places. After all, there is Panentheism.)

Atheists..."I know there isn't any God in the universe anywhere and I don't have to search the universe in order to believe it".

Easycruise (in a putative future): "I have searched the whole universe, and can report that God is nowhere to be found!"
Theists' reactions:

 

[Complexity]

I'm saying that if an atheist completely denies the existence of a supreme being (a God like entity) in the universe, it would behoove themselves to conduct proper due diligence and go out and search said universe before coming to such a position of denial. Until that search is conducted, IMO, one cannot dismiss the possbility of a "God" , given the vast quantity of traces of wonderous complexity we call the universe.

If there is a 'god' that wants to be acknowledged, obeyed, worshipped, whatever, it needs to haul its ass over here and put on a good show. Pronto.

I only allocate two days a month for auditioning deities and I've had to adhere to a very strict policy on no-shows, there-was-a-car-crashers, and my-dog-ate-my-homeworkers.

Would you like to see a 'vast quantity of traces of wonderful complexity'?

Are you sure?

Love,
Complexity <===== because I don't think he'll get it otherwise.

 

[Snide]

Atheists..."I know there isn't any God in the universe anywhere and I don't have to search the universe in order to believe it".

This just isn't true. I am atheist, but this does not describe me.

As I said before, atheism is simply "without theism." I don't have to "know" there is no god to not believe in one.