Marrena
Critical Thinker
- Joined
- Sep 1, 2004
- Messages
- 321
*sigh* To play devil's advocate, just to clear up some misinformation and show how someone can believe in astrology without being an idiot, I'm going to respond to all these.
First Tricky there is a difference in practical application and understanding how something works. Many people would argue astrology is already being applied practically--it works well enough for people to use it to guide their lives. You are moving the bar, you were talking about how long it took for the mechanism of electricity to be understood after electrical experiments became the hobby of the upper middle class--that took atomic theory. And yes of course once the mechanism of a thing (like disease) is thoroughly understood then real advances can be made. You are arguing my side of the debate there.
As to all the complicated permutations of astrology, yes, of course. That's why many of the automatically generated natal horoscopes, say at astrology.com are so contradictory. They don't weight anything; nothing is ranked according to importance. However I believe this is easily rectified, the software just hasn't achieved that sophistication. There are well-defined rules for ranking importance of natal chart elements--tightness of angles, big formations like grand trines, singletons by element and location, total lack of an element, and then the standard--sun, moon, rising sign. For example, the Charles Manson chart that was given to me--the obvious thing about that chart was the 12th house Aries Uranus singleton. Now yes, the nuances of his personality were expressed in the rest of his chart, but that singleton is the most obvious thing. If you looked at his sun sign it wouldn't say anything about him being a serial killer--obviously not, that would make one-twelfth of the population serial killers.
I'm pretty sure the astrologers, at least some of them, had a solar-centric view of the the solar system, with the Earth as round. But it's a moot point--your main point, that the ancients believed in gods that acted according to where things were in the sky--that is still believed by people who believe in astrology, just substitute the word "forces" for "gods." I think it may actually have been the other way around, the idea of specific gods interacting and determining the lives of men may have arisen from astrological practices. At any rate, this belief of Jungian archetypal forces interacting ("as above, so below") is almost a requirement for a belief in astrology. For example, my horoscope for today--the transit with the heaviest weight is Mercury trining my natal midheaven, which will be exact today.
"Valid during several weeks: This is a good time for mental work. You plan very effectively, with a clear objective perception of the facts, and you think very carefully, paying close attention to detail. Your mind easily resolves a difficult and complex issue into its component parts so that you can handle each part separately and come to a valid conclusion. This is a good time for talking with others. Your objectivity will impress other people, and they will not worry that you might try to force them into a position that they do not want to take. You will establish an environment in which any subject can be brought up and discussed. Therefore this is also a good time for business negotiations. You know what you want, and you will listen to what others want and arrive at a satisfactory compromise. "
It made more sense that the planets actually were gods in the worldview, absolutely. Knowing that planets are oversized rocks doesn't fit in very well.
First Tricky there is a difference in practical application and understanding how something works. Many people would argue astrology is already being applied practically--it works well enough for people to use it to guide their lives. You are moving the bar, you were talking about how long it took for the mechanism of electricity to be understood after electrical experiments became the hobby of the upper middle class--that took atomic theory. And yes of course once the mechanism of a thing (like disease) is thoroughly understood then real advances can be made. You are arguing my side of the debate there.
As to all the complicated permutations of astrology, yes, of course. That's why many of the automatically generated natal horoscopes, say at astrology.com are so contradictory. They don't weight anything; nothing is ranked according to importance. However I believe this is easily rectified, the software just hasn't achieved that sophistication. There are well-defined rules for ranking importance of natal chart elements--tightness of angles, big formations like grand trines, singletons by element and location, total lack of an element, and then the standard--sun, moon, rising sign. For example, the Charles Manson chart that was given to me--the obvious thing about that chart was the 12th house Aries Uranus singleton. Now yes, the nuances of his personality were expressed in the rest of his chart, but that singleton is the most obvious thing. If you looked at his sun sign it wouldn't say anything about him being a serial killer--obviously not, that would make one-twelfth of the population serial killers.
I'm pretty sure the astrologers, at least some of them, had a solar-centric view of the the solar system, with the Earth as round. But it's a moot point--your main point, that the ancients believed in gods that acted according to where things were in the sky--that is still believed by people who believe in astrology, just substitute the word "forces" for "gods." I think it may actually have been the other way around, the idea of specific gods interacting and determining the lives of men may have arisen from astrological practices. At any rate, this belief of Jungian archetypal forces interacting ("as above, so below") is almost a requirement for a belief in astrology. For example, my horoscope for today--the transit with the heaviest weight is Mercury trining my natal midheaven, which will be exact today.
"Valid during several weeks: This is a good time for mental work. You plan very effectively, with a clear objective perception of the facts, and you think very carefully, paying close attention to detail. Your mind easily resolves a difficult and complex issue into its component parts so that you can handle each part separately and come to a valid conclusion. This is a good time for talking with others. Your objectivity will impress other people, and they will not worry that you might try to force them into a position that they do not want to take. You will establish an environment in which any subject can be brought up and discussed. Therefore this is also a good time for business negotiations. You know what you want, and you will listen to what others want and arrive at a satisfactory compromise. "
It made more sense that the planets actually were gods in the worldview, absolutely. Knowing that planets are oversized rocks doesn't fit in very well.
.
). the application of astrology to our daily lives is very much ambiguous. A person could apply the wisdom found in alphabet soup to their lives, but it wouldn't necessarily mean that "soup scrying" is a valid technique.
