Assistance required for telepathy proof

[petre]

I am trying to locate the person who did the University test with me and see if he will volunteer for some more tests on a GSR I have which is as accurate as the one at the University.

I am willing to buy the polygraph as soon as I have enough funds but need a partner to help with the experiments to hone then to perfection before making a claim to the JREF.

Self testing would indeed be a good idea. The ability to reproduce results on demand is the most important thing.

On the philosophical side, I'm curious how you've come to the conclusion that a GSR or polygraph in any way indicate a person's honesty. Certainly many people claim to believe GSRs and polygraphs will detect lies, but what if they are themselves lying and these machines don't work at all? Given your trouble with finding a single honest person in the world, I'm surprised you'd so willingly accept the word of others that these machines are useful in detecting lies. I suggest you test a machine yourself, see how the measurements change when you lie and tell the truth. If you have access to a computer that could record the results, you could have it randomize them and present them back to you. If in such a test you cannot correctly identify your own lies, you'd have to assume the machine doesn't work at all. Until you perform such a self-test, I don't see how you can just blindly accept that the machine works.

 

[golfy]

Czarcasm,

I don’t think your brain is big enough, I would show you my driving licence and passport if you came up with my surname – dugggghh!

All other tests would have some protocol involved.

You left this forum before Czarcasm, it was better without you.

golfy

 

[Dumb All Over]

You’ll look like chimps if I achieve it with someone else.

golfy

I beg your pardon.

 

[Czarcasm]

Czarcasm,

I don’t think your brain is big enough, I would show you my driving licence and passport if you came up with my surname – dugggghh!

All other tests would have some protocol involved.

You left this forum before Czarcasm, it was better without you.

golfy

Again I ask: How would you know whether or not the person administering the polygraph is mucking up the results? Will you accept said results no matter the outcome?

 

[chillzero]

golfy, please try to keep top the topic of your challenge, without resorting to personal attacks on other members.

You are being asked some relevant questions to assist with your challenge claim.

 

[Czarcasm]

Czarcasm,

I don’t think your brain is big enough, I would show you my driving licence and passport if you came up with my surname – dugggghh!

All other tests would have some protocol involved.

You left this forum before Czarcasm, it was better without you.

golfy

Who would want to take a test with someone who pre-supposes that he can send telepathic messages? If I don't come up with the right result in such a test, you will accuse me of lying.

 

[GzuzKryzt]

...
In reality I am the exact opposite of most claimants like magnet men, spoon benders, psychics etc in that I would welcome the to be the most rigorous, deceit proof test available which would totally eradicates all forms of human manipulation on both the receivers and transmitters side, all forms of mistakes being made etc and yet you seem to be trying to talk me out of it and into something that can be manipulated, tricks can be played and lies can be told. I am simply trying to steer the testing into the most scientific, manipulation proof manner humanly possible and people seem very uninterested in doing that. Why?

golfy

This is exactly why the JREF will (likely) refuse to allow a polygraph: There must not be any room for interpretation of the results, they have to be self-evident.

What do you think of the Achau Nguyen protocol, golfy?

Golfy, the Achau Nguyen test was accepted as fair and sound. What do you think of said protocol and would you use it to prove your claim?

...
I am simply trying to steer the testing into the most scientific, manipulation proof manner humanly possible...

 

[golfy]

Hi,

I have not read it all as there is quite a lot to get through but I am happy with any protocol where I am given a word to think to the receiver such as tree – words chosen by anyone such as the JREF.

The receiver is asked at some point “Did you hear the word bowl” The receiver always replies “No.” The receiver is then asked “Did you lie on your last answer” The receiver always replies “No”

The next question is then asked as above but with another word etc untill all the words have been gone through.

The receiver would be on a polygraph so that and stress that occurs when the receiver is asked the questions can be monitored and recorded.

If had only 1 word to be thinking during the first phase of the test with say the receiver being asked about 10 words, then if I was continuously thinking the word “Tree” for instance (just one word from the list), then when the receiver is asked “Did you hear the word tree” The receiver always replies “No.” The receiver is then asked “Did you lie on your last answer” The receiver would then reply “No” and stress should appear on the polygraph if he has heard the word “Tree” telepathically. This is my basic protocol. If the receiver and I are in separate rooms and have no contact with each other from before the words are selected then there can be no transfer of info from the to the receiver apart from telepathically.

It may be a good idea to show the receiver which words he is going to be asked about before he is asked (standard polygraph practice) as it increases the tension and stress in the receiver as he gets closer in the list to the word “Tree” if he has already heard it telepathically from me in another room prior to the polygraph test being started.

List would be similar to

-bowl
-glasses
-shoe
-telephone
-padlock
-tree
-boat
-clock
-hammer
-house

and the receiver can look at it and is then asked about each word in turn. Obviously I would expect a large indication on the polygraph on the word tree which would then prove telepathic transmission. The test would have to be repeated 3 times successfully to warrant winning the prize. (1000:1 odds)

golfy

 

[Czarcasm]

Would you be using a properly trained professional polygraph operator?
Would you accept any results as truthful and accurate, even if they show that you don't have the ability you think you have?

 

[GzuzKryzt]

And: Do you have a media presence, as required per the Challenge Rules? Have you read said rules, as alfaniner has asked before?

 

[golfy]

I can keep on answering all the questions all the time as I have to work as well so I'll answer telepathically.

golfy

 

[Czarcasm]

I can keep on answering all the questions all the time so I'll answer telepathically.

golfy

Do you think that rudeness might be a reason the University dropped you?

 

[wahrheit]

The receiver is asked at some point “Did you hear the word bowl” The receiver always replies “No.” The receiver is then asked “Did you lie on your last answer” The receiver always replies “No”

The next question is then asked as above but with another word etc untill all the words have been gone through.

...

I can't imagine that such a test would ever be agreed upon.

I can keep on answering all the questions all the time so I'll answer telepathically.

golfy

I have not received anything, yet. Try harder.

 

[Dumb All Over]

And: Do you have a media presence, as required per the Challenge Rules? Have you read said rules, as alfaniner has asked before?

Not only will you need a media presence, JREF will require that you present signed affidavits from professionals. Golfy, are you prepared to submit signed affidavits?

 

[golfy]

Czarcasm seems to have had a sense of humour failure.

If I could repeatedly demonstrate telepathy as above on a polygraph and got into the press then I am sure an academic could be found who would back up my claims.

I think the thing to do is finalise the tests first untill I can demonstrate successfully my telepathic ability and then come back to the JREF with a protocol suggestion and see if they are then happy with it.

golfy

 

[Loss Leader]

Correct surname please. If you can tell me it then the rewards you get would make the MDC prize look like peanuts, so why the stalling?

Golfy, why do you assume that anyone is stalling? Isn't it much more reasonable to assume that people are not answering you because they cannot hear your thoughts?

 

[GzuzKryzt]

Czarcasm seems to have had a sense of humour failure.

If I could repeatedly demonstrate telepathy as above on a polygraph and got into the press then I am sure an academic could be found who would back up my claims.

I think the thing to do is finalise the tests first untill I can demonstrate successfully my telepathic ability and then come back to the JREF with a protocol suggestion and see if they are then happy with it.

golfy

Golfy, can you please try to answer the questions directed to you?

 

[Czarcasm]

Czarcasm just wants to know if your version of the test is falsifiable. If this polygraph test you propose does not yield the desired result, will you admit defeat, or blame the polygraph operator and/or the receiver?

 

[Loss Leader]

The receiver is asked at some point “Did you hear the word bowl” The receiver always replies “No.” The receiver is then asked “Did you lie on your last answer” The receiver always replies “No”

Knowing in advance that you were going to answer "no" for every question would reduce a lot of the stress involved. A professional polygraph guy may not even be able to tell you anything meaningful about the results if every answer is "no."

However, with a professional polygraph guy, every answer doesn't have to be "no." One could answer however one chooses and the polygraph would just reveal if the response was truthful. Having someone answer "yes" in a truthful manner should be as easy for the polygrapher to read as having someone answer "no" untruthfully.

This, of course, assumes that polygraph machines work. They don't, by the way.

 

[The Atheist]

I call shenanigans. And of course no test ever.

I'm not taking that bet.

Golfy, the Achau Nguyen test was accepted as fair and sound. What do you think of said protocol and would you use it to prove your claim?

Achau Nguyen, no matter how deluded he was/is, was did at least have a little more intestinal fortitude than most of 'em. He wanted to be tested, not cry about why he isn't being.

This, of course, assumes that polygraph machines work. They don't, by the way.

Isn't that the point?

"Hey, I can take a machine which does not work and make it not work!

Pay me the mio.

PWND"

However, for 20% of the MDC, I'll have a crack at your surname, golfy.

I'm getting a Samoan name.....

Ful'a'ful'a'fisi.