Ashcroft's Amerika becoming a reality

The only problem the leftists have with this is that they didnt think of it first.
 
Whatever. I find your positions incomprehensible.

Seems to me this is scary stuff. If it doesn't bother you, well, OK. But blaming it on the left is just silly.
 
In July, Ashcroft told prosecutors to pursue maximum punishments and report on sentences that were dramatically less than what guidelines recommend.
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Consistency is one thing, but he's directing people to arbitrarily pursue the maximum sentence and maximum punishments, discouraging independent thought, based on particular circumstances of each case.
Gerald Lefcourt, past president of the National Association of Criminal Defense Lawyers, said the plea-bargaining directive would make the federal criminal system "inflexible and problematic" because fewer defendants would plead guilty to harsher offenses.

Lefcourt also predicted it would further burden a straining corrections system.
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I also read that the Patriot's Act is now being used mostly in the prosecution of ordinary citizens suspected of a crime, not primarily for suspected terrorists.

Scary?

Very.
 
Another report on the same story. Note the last paragraph:
The memo comes two months after Ashcroft directed federal prosecutors to report on judges who issue lighter sentences than what is recommended by the federal sentencing guidelines.
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Reminds me of when Bush wanted postal workers to "keep their eyes open" for terrorist activities *coughspyoncitizenscough* while on their routes.
 
Sundog said:
Whatever. I find your positions incomprehensible.

Seems to me this is scary stuff. If it doesn't bother you, well, OK. But blaming it on the left is just silly.
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It does bother me (a lot), but I don’t believe for one second that the pissing and moaning about it is anything but partisan. The left has shown a blatant disregard for constitutional and civil rights in the recent past, the only reason they seem to care now is because a republican is in charge.
 
Sounds like a good time to invest in those privately owned prisons (if they haven't been all bought up by Republicans).

Charlie (war and punishment are great industries!) Monoxide
 
Now you´ve made me real courios, Tony. When in the "recent past" have Democrats done something like what this administration does?
 
Tony said:

The left has shown a blatant disregard for constitutional and civil rights in the recent past,
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:i:

Ashcroft has been squashing constitutional rights nearly constantly since 9/11/01. What has the left done?
 
Tony said:
The only problem the leftists have with this is that they didnt think of it first.
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So Tony, if a cop finds some pot in your car, you will happily agree to be charged for drug traffic instead of simple possession?

Cool.

Zee
 
Oddly, this is one of the few things that Ashcroft has done that DOESN'T bother me. I think prosecutors SHOULD pursue the harshest penalties that can be proven against the accused.

My biggest problem with the law is that there are a lot of things that are illegal that have no business being illegal. Drug laws spring immediately to mind.

My position has always been that we need fewer laws but harsher punishments. Ashcrofts biggest problem, in my mind, is that he is pursuing only the second half of that ideal.
 
Ashcroft had better be circumspect - the biter may get bit.

Classic example just happened in Australia. A far-right (and controversial) politician who advocated such a tough stance on criminals (you know, bread and water stuff) was recently convicted on election fraud charges.

The situation was that political parties are allowed claim electoral "expenses" for participating in elections, but there is a minimum size for a party - 400 members - before this payback cuts in. She claimed her party had sufficient members, and thus she was paid some $500,000 in recompense after the election. In fact, there were only 3 official members, she being one.

All very mundane. However, the law as written states that the penalty is 6 months for each offence, ie. for each member claimed that was not a member. At over 400 members, she TECHNICALLY should be in gaol 200 years! As it is, she got 3 years (currently being appealed), and there has been a modicum of public outcry from certain right-wing quarters even over that length of sentence.

So, Mr Ashcroft, you might care to take note about taking rigid tough stances on criminal convictions!
 
Chaos said:
Now you´ve made me real courios, Tony. When in the "recent past" have Democrats done something like what this administration does?
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Gun laws, "hate" crimes, tax hikes, campaigning against free ("hate") speech, Waco, Ruby Ridge, affirmative action ect..

I admit, these aren't extreme as the patriot act, but the left wasn’t presented with the opportunity 9/11 provided.

The left must be salivating at the prospect of re-gaining power and thus having the opportunity to exploit the laws ashcroft put in place.
 
ZeeGerman said:


So Tony, if a cop finds some pot in your car, you will happily agree to be charged for drug traffic instead of simple possession?
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That's not gonna happen.
 
Tony said:



Gun laws, "hate" crimes, tax hikes, campaigning against free ("hate") speech, Waco, Ruby Ridge, affirmative action ect..

I admit, these aren't extreme as the patriot act, but the left wasn’t presented with the opportunity 9/11 provided.

The left must be salivating at the prospect of re-gaining power and thus having the opportunity to exploit the laws ashcroft put in place.
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I think that you are so busy being indignant about the past that it's blinding you to the far greater horror that's going on right now. As much as you kick and thrash about the awful liberals, the fact remains: They have absolutely, positively nothing to do with this, and this is far worse than Ruby Ridge or Waco.

Time to get mad at the right people.
 
Sundog said:


I think that you are so busy being indignant about the past that it's blinding you to the far greater horror that's going on right now. As much as you kick and thrash about the awful liberals, the fact remains: They have absolutely, positively nothing to do with this, and this is far worse than Ruby Ridge or Waco.

Time to get mad at the right people.
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I guess you missed the part where I said the patriot act bothered me a lot, and that those events I listed were not extreme as the patriot act. I am mad at the right people, politicians on both the left and the right.

Im just skeptical this has anything to do with civil liberties or constitutional rights and everything to do with partisan politics.
 
Tony said:


Im just skeptical this has anything to do with civil liberties or constitutional rights and everything to do with partisan politics.
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If this bothers you so much, why did you invoke partisan politics yourself with your comment?
 
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