Article about James Randi by Michael Goodspeed

Paul C. Anagnostopoulos said:
I have an idea. Let's distribute the workload of writing up the claims and tests. Let's have each claimant do his own.

I agree. It would be highly improper, as well open up for a lot of possible errors, if someone else than the actual applicant were to fill out the application form.

Setting up a test, and agreeing about the terms is not just a phone call. It takes months to work out.
 
Clancie said:

To not systematically document the protocol used and results for each and every tested applicant--and also not to report the results in a systematic and publicly accessible way--, is imo, appalling and inexcusable.

I find Randi's high-handed attitude of "Come to Fort Lauderdale and go through the boxes for yourself if you're so interested in the Challenge results" arrogant and irresponsible (especially for a non-profit corporation that is subsidized by tax payers and, therefore, has been given a public trust and responsibility).

In addition to the work involved in trying to make such claims available publicly (given the wide range of claims, the poor state of many of them, and the details involved in doing a test), there may also be legal issues involved.

If the JREF posts something about "John Smith took the following test and failed..." then John Smith may turn around and sue the JREF for defamation of character. Even though the JREF would likely win such a lawsuit (after all, I think they have to sign something indicating they authorize the use of test results), the cost of defending against such lawsuits would be prohibitive.
 
Segnosaur said:


In addition to the work involved in trying to make such claims available publicly (given the wide range of claims, the poor state of many of them, and the details involved in doing a test), there may also be legal issues involved.

If the JREF posts something about "John Smith took the following test and failed..." then John Smith may turn around and sue the JREF for defamation of character. Even though the JREF would likely win such a lawsuit (after all, I think they have to sign something indicating they authorize the use of test results), the cost of defending against such lawsuits would be prohibitive.

The woo signs this:

When entering into this challenge, the applicant surrenders any and all rights to legal action against Mr. Randi, against any persons peripherally involved, and against the James Randi Educational Foundation, as far as this may be done by established statutes. This applies to injury, accident, or any other damage of a physical or emotional nature, and/or financial, or professional, loss or damage of any kind. However, this rule in no way affects the awarding of the prize.

Anyone can sue for anything. You can't be paralyzed by fear.
 
Posted by Segnosaur

In addition to the work involved in trying to make such claims available publicly (given the wide range of claims, the poor state of many of them, and the details involved in doing a test), there may also be legal issues involved.

Well, why test at all then, Segnosaur, if it is so difficult to get results? (And if Randi can devise a protocol, test clearly enough to understand the results he's gotten, and on the basis of those results say "No one has ever passed the preliminary test"...then what is the big deal about summarizing and writing the protocol and results up? I'm willing to do it for Randi for free and am positive it would take minimal effort and time to do it accurately).


If the JREF posts something about "John Smith took the following test and failed..." then John Smith may turn around and sue the JREF for defamation of character.

Nice try, but have you read any of the Commentaries where Randi openly mocks the claimants? No one sues for that. Why would they sue for a factual summary of what they actually did?

In addition, all claimants sign a release form saying JREF can use their results any way they wish. "You didn't pass" seems a minimal use of results--and hardly defamatory.

I admit that I'm..intrigued?....astounded?...by the rationalizations offered so far for keeping results of the preliminary tests hidden. .
 
Clancie said:

(especially for a non-profit corporation that is subsidized by tax payers and, therefore, has been given a public trust and responsibility).

While I assume all of our donations come from regular tax payers, who may or may not claim their deductions on their 1040 returns, we are not funded with any public tax dollars....only private donations. As a 501(c)3 corporation, our records are public knowledge.
 
Clancie said:

I admit that I'm..intrigued?....astounded?...by the rationalizations offered so far for keeping results of the preliminary tests hidden. . [/B]

Me too.

When I first brought this up 2 years ago (whenever, right after I registered, anyway) I got all sorts of reasons about how "the records are in a deplorable shape". Fine, I said. Then do it on a forward basis. Nothing fancy, bare bones, the same sort of stuff that one would use to communicate the essence of the test to Randy or Harter or Linda or whoever. Nothing.

For something that so much is made of, there seems to be a real lack of gravitas concerning it. And, I might add, a distinct lack of curiosity on the part of sceptics. I think Hanniety spinning for Bush.
 
Linda,

What I meant was that JREF has tax exempt status as a non-profit educational organization, that this implies a certain level of public trust. (I regard exemption as a kind of subsidy because others still -do- pay for the government services we all benefit from, but, technically, "exemption" does not equal "subsidy", that's true).

Unlike most corporations, JREF has received a tax exempt status because it provides a public service--in this case, education. To me the Challenge is an important part of that concept of JREF education about the paranormal, part of the mission, part of the reason for its non profit status.

And, btw, if you're still here...any interest in having me or other volunteers write up the protocol and results for the preliminary testing?
 
Linda said:


While I assume all of our donations come from regular tax payers, who may or may not claim their deductions on their 1040 returns, we are not funded with any public tax dollars....only private donations. As a 501(c)3 corporation, our records are public knowledge.

The taxes that are not paid by a non-profit are made up by everyone else. Who is on the Board, incidentially?
 
Clancie said:
What I meant was that JREF has tax exempt status as a non-profit educational organization, that this implies a certain level of public trust. (I regard exemption as a kind of subsidy because others still -do- pay for the government services we all benefit from, but, technically, "exemption" does not equal "subsidy", that's true).

No, it does not imply any level of public trust. It is simply a tax code:

Source: Sec. 501. - Exemption from tax on corporations, certain trusts, etc.

Whatever you regard it as has no bearing what it factually is.

Clancie said:
Unlike most corporations, JREF has received a tax exempt status because it provides a public service--in this case, education. To me the Challenge is an important part of that concept of JREF education about the paranormal, part of the mission, part of the reason for its non profit status.

The JREF is not a corporation. It is a foundation. It operates not as "public service", but as a non-profit organization.
 
Clancie said:

Well, why test at all then, Segnosaur, if it is so difficult to get results? (And if Randi can devise a protocol, test clearly enough to understand the results he's gotten, and on the basis of those results say "No one has ever passed the preliminary test"...then what is the big deal about summarizing and writing the protocol and results up? I'm willing to do it for Randi for free and am positive it would take minimal effort and time to do it accurately).
[/B]

Even if you are willing to do it for free, there would be costs associated with it that the JREF would be responsible for. People at the JREF would have to send you material, any 'summaries' would have to be verified/proofread (by Randi, or Linda, or someone 'official'), any database of claims on the web would require a web host/databases, etc.

I suspect things would get a lot more complicated than just sending off the report of the latest claimaint to you or some other summarizer.

If anyone has free time for such a project, there are probably much better ways to support the JREF.

Clancie said:


Nice try, but have you read any of the Commentaries where Randi openly mocks the claimants? No one sues for that. Why would they sue for a factual summary of what they actually did?

In addition, all claimants sign a release form saying JREF can use their results any way they wish. "You didn't pass" seems a minimal use of results--and hardly defamatory.
[/B]

I am aware of the release. I mentioned it in my origial post on this thread. I even said: Even though the JREF would likely win such a lawsuit...

A person can sue for anything reason they wish, even 'invalid' reasons. Some no-name claimant may feel that the publicity they would receive may be worth the cost of a possible court case.

Randi may mock individual claimants in his commentaries, but if that's a relatively small number of the total number of claimants then the risk is low. (As Ed said, "you can't be paralyzed by fear"; however, there is a difference between being "paralyzed" and putting the organization in a situation where it would suffer needlessly.)

Clancie said:
I admit that I'm..intrigued?....astounded?...by the rationalizations offered so far for keeping results of the preliminary tests hidden. .

Who said the results are 'hidden'? Not having them immediately available on-line is not the equivalent of having results supressed.
 
Ah well, then I was mistaken about the way the preliminary test works. How I deserved an attempted insult for that is beyond me, though.

I guess a lot of people are mistaken about the preliminary test. :D

I am from Bucks County, Pennsylvania though, not Washington (any of them).
 
We actually do have a volunteer that is wading through all the challenge applications and organizing things. I'm going to ask Kramer to bring us up to speed on the status of claims.
 
Linda said:
We actually do have a volunteer that is wading through all the challenge applications and organizing things. I'm going to ask Kramer to bring us up to speed on the status of claims.

AN071990.jpg


:jaw:
 
Goodspeed is just WRONG

Well, when one reads such drivel it's extremely difficult to decide where to begin when composing a rational response. One tends to get a bit angry. It's mighty hard to avoid.

Goodspeed makes a mighty mess of the truth here. I'd like to respond to each and every false claim he has made in his posts, but I simply don't have a free month or two on my calender to devote to such a task. I also have a family, and I like to see them and spend some time with them every now and again.

But, I digress.

I know exactly where Randi is coming from when he arrives at the point of responding to his detractors with hysterics; anger and seemingly insurmountable frustration are sometimes unavoidable when an ignorant buffoon like Goodspeed spins his pap before an audience. Happily, however, we can always trust Randi to respond honestly when confronted by such utter nonsense and sloppy thinking. Indeed, when such sloppy thinking is right in your face, very often one simply can not help but erupt like a volcano and spew a vitriolic response back into the face of the bullsh*tter. Bold-faced lies regarding who we are and what we do are very upsetting, and this Goodspeed bozo does seem committed (no pun intended) to making Randi seem downright dishonest and opportunistic, to say the least. Shame on him and his kind. If only everyone who reads his shoddy postings could for even a single day become a "fly on the wall" here at JREF, they would immediately see through his effluvium and know the truth...and perhaps I should now introduce myself:

This is my first post. My name is KRAMER. I have been friends with James Randi for many years, long before I relocated from NYC to South Florida and began working here at JREF in the MILLION DOLLAR PARANORMAL CHALLENGE department...the target of such feeble-minded scrutiny here in the JREF forum.

As I said, there is so much to respond to, it's hard to know how to even begin. Perhaps the best way to start is to address the absurd claim that Randi's interest in investigating the claims of prize applicants is focused mainly upon the claimants whose fame or notoriety might bring about an invitation to appear on TV or in the media. NOTHING COULD BE FURTHER FROM THE TRUTH !!!

I have been here for nearly four weeks now, and, until today, when I finally found the time to register in the forum and begin perusing its contents, I have spent 100% of my time pouring through hundreds of applications for the Paranormal Challenge and responding to each and every one. Many are accepted outright. Others need clarification of their claim. Others make little or no sense at all, yet regardless, I try my very best to decipher the nature of the claim and compose a clear response.

Here is one important thing I can tell you all in response to the LIAR Goodspeed's claims that we are more concerned with testing the rich and famous for the sake of publicity than honestly responding to and/or investigating ALL paranormal claims that come our way:

Of the hundreds of applications I have read and responded to, NOT A SINGLE ONE has been from anyone of ANY notoriety or fame. Although many applications are from persons of questionable morality who earn a damn good living deceiving the ignorant, none possess any hint of notoriety, and most are clearly of limited means. One "psychic" is fairly well known amongst the Russian community in Brooklyn, but by and large, the "famous" steer clear of us. Exposing their trickery would cost them their livelihoods, and they're anything but stupid. Most are pretty clever, in fact. One needs a certain degree of cleverness and imagination in order to achieve tenure in the industry of deception. We all know that there's an awful lot of money at stake in what they do. Why would they risk it? By and large, they don't. Only the most blatantly shameless (or stupid) would submit to appearing on nationwide TV alongside Randi, whom they know full well is forever undaunted in his willingness to challenge them with his mantra; "PROVE IT !"

I spend my days sauntering in and out of Randi's private office, interrupting his hard work with constant questions regarding prize applications. He treats each and every query with the same integrity and attention, regardless of its' source, whether they be self-deluded scientists, amateur paranormalists, or devout followers of jesus, mohammed or zarathustra. He listens attentively. never interrupts as I read a claim to him, and presents a reasonable response.

I swear this to all of you on my father's grave. I would swear this in a court of law under penalty of perjury. It is the absolute TRUTH.

That said, I would be lying if I said that all the claims we receive are reasonable in nature. Rest assured they are not. Some are downright ridiculous, such as the man in England who insists that no lion, no matter how wild, no matter what size, will bite him. We shared a good laugh over that one. Can you blame us?

Indeed, is this even a paranormal claim?

Are alleged "breatharians" claiming paranormal ability, or just medical impossibility? It doesn't matter to me. I respond within days, regardless of the claim, often repeating over and over that the claimant should visit the website and CAREFULLY examine the prize rules. Every prize has its rules. Who would give ours the slightest credence were it not supported by REASON?

We respond to each and every application we receive, and each and every applicant is given equal opportunity to become a "claimant". Perhaps half of all applicants seem to be submitted by honest people who truly believe they possess the type of powers that can win them the prize. The other half is a combination of cowardly hucksters who never respond to our proposed protocol for testing their claim, and those who are more concerned with insisting that their "powers" are divine in nature than they are with actually submitting to a test of their claim. It's a real mixed bag. Yet still, we decline to discriminate. If someone writes, I write back, often repeatedly. If someone emails, they get a response immediately after I read it. If someone calls, I pick up the phone and STAY on the phone until the caller is satisfied.

Try me.

The piece submitted on the forum by Goodspeed is categorically and patently false in each and every respect. I have poured through it in a desperate search for even a modicum of truth, but could find none. Believe me; I know Mr. James Randi intimately, and I assure you with all sincerity that he would much rather appear at 1,000 grade schools lecturing children on the virtues of critical thinking than appear on ONE installment of Larry King beside some grossly wealthy charlatan in a vain attempt to prove false what people will continue to believe regardless of the existence of mountains of hard proof refuting it. Such an appearance would be costly and time consuming, to say the least.
Randi has a plethora of more important things to do. Meaningful work is in great abundancy here at JREF.

I repeat; however absurd the claim appears on the surface, we respond quickly (as of my arrival here, anyway), and every applicant has a fair shot at proving their claim. If claimants refuse to allow scientific standards to be applied to the testing procedure, well, there is little we can do about it. We make no unreasonable demands on applicants. Indeed, REASON is all we have.

This just the beginning. There is SO MUCH MORE to respond to.

I'm happy to be here, and I look forward to ALL correspondence that comes my way. I'll also try to keep as up-to-date as my duties will allow, here in the forum.
 
Welcome Kramer, and thanks for the informative post. :)

I look forward to other posts from you.
 
Hi Kramer!

It was very interesting to read your letter, you conveyed a sense of what it is like to work for JREF!
 
The passion and dedication that Kramer has for the JREF really came through in that post. I applaud both him and his gargantuan efforts in wading through the "piles" of applications the JREF gets.

Kudos to Kramer.
 
Posted by Linda

We actually do have a volunteer that is wading through all the challenge applications and organizing things. I'm going to ask Kramer to bring us up to speed on the status of claims.
Thanks for the info, Linda, that's good to know.

Does Kramer's work with the testing mean that there's a plan to publicly document/record all preliminary test protocol and results --at least for all those that come up from now on? That seems to be the one area that hasn't been fully addressed.
 
I would say yes, in some format. I don't think it's as daunting a job as Randi feels it is, and Kramer is eager to start working on it. We'll also have several interns working with us over the next year so should be able to initiate some of the organizational/database/cataloguing projects that need attention.
 
There is indeed a plan presently being hashed out as regards making all future test protocols and results available to forum members, but those plans are in the formative stages right now.
It won't take too long to figure out how to do this.

We fully understand the importance of making such data available, and we are wholly committed to quickly arriving at a solution that will satisfy all forum members while simulataneously preventing charlatans from finding a way around our test procedures. There are differing opinions here as to how best to address these issues. We discuss it every day. A result is definitely forthcoming.

But now that the past applications on file heren have ALL been responded to, I think we'll find a way to arrive at a solution fairly quickly. However, I do NOT think it would be possible to go deep into the past and present a full compendium of what's already transpired. Considering the enormous amount of work that needs immediate attention, it seems reasonable that FROM THIS POINT ONWARD, data will be made available. I just don't see how we can compile all the data from the past without hiring someone new who would devote 100% of their energies to that specific task. It would take years.

Contrary to what seems to be a popular delusion amongst forum members, we do NOT receive hundreds of applicants each week.
In fact, we get about one a day. Sometimes we get two or three in a single day, and then nothing for days.

I have just completed wading through hundreds of applications going back as much as two years...some as many as three years old. That's how busy we are. And that's how understaffed we are. Anyone in the South Florida vicinity who wishes to lend us a hand here is certainly welcome to volunteer.

Thanks to all those who responded so positively to my post of this afternoon. See you all again on Monday. I'm going fishing.
 

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