Arrested at Mitt Romney Campaign's Request

[JoeTheJuggler]

Hardly a rabble-rouser. If this is the level of discourse that Romney is looking to avoid, he'll be keeping the cops very, very busy.

How dare a common voter attempt to request repeatedly that a political candidate answer a question! Why that's treason!

No wait--that's protected political speech, and nothing violent or threatening violence or any other type of disturbance of the peace at all.

 

[JoeTheJuggler]

They are still police officers with their full powers of arrest. <snip>
Since they are working for a private entity they will follow the direction of that entity, within the law.

They certainly can't arrest people at the direction of their client.

The officer in this case said that's just what he did. He said that Beiber didn't do anything wrong. They arrested him based on the word of the staffers (i.e. Romney's campaign staff).

 

[eeyore1954]

They certainly can't arrest people at the direction of their client.

The officer in this case said that's just what he did. He said that Beiber didn't do anything wrong. They arrested him based on the word of the staffers (i.e. Romney's campaign staff).

Are they allowed to ask him to leave?

 

[JoeTheJuggler]

Are they allowed to ask him to leave?

Who? The police or the Romney campaign? Acting as contract agents of the Romney campaign, they can ask him to leave. (Acting as police, they cannot.)

And as for the authority to arrest, the reverse is true. They can arrest based on police authority, but not at the direction of the Romney campaign.

As I said, I think the problem is that the police blurred the authorities they have. The client cannot order them to use their police powers at the client's discretion. The client can asked them to bounce an unwanted guest. They didn't bounce the guy; they arrested him and put him in jail for 4 hours.

 

[Beth]

As I said, I think the problem is that the police blurred the authorities they have. The client cannot order them to use their police powers at the client's discretion. The client can asked them to bounce an unwanted guest. They didn't bounce the guy; they arrested him and put him in jail for 4 hours.

I agree that the police burred the authority they were working underm but it's not at all clear (at least to me) exactly what they are and are not allowed to do in that circumstance. At any rate, I'm not sure the Romney campaign wanted him arrested, they may have just requested he be bounced. Mr. Bieber was asking questions and wanting to talk with someone from the campaign about it rather than simply obeying the officer immediately. I'm not sure why that was an arrestable offense, but that's why I posted this.

 

[Brainster]

Hmmm:

My name is Matt Bieber. I study politics, religion, and public discourse at Harvard's Kennedy and Divinity schools.

I’ve drafted speeches for Vice President Biden and crafted communications strategies for NGOs in East Africa. I also spent two-and-a-half years in the corporate sector.

Bolding added for emphasis. So this is not some ordinary citizen. I'm not saying that it means he should have been arrested, but it does indicate that there may be more to this whole story than he's telling.

 

[stilicho]

Here's one news story which seems to only give his side of the story as well--though the Romney campaign is certainly free to give their side.

ETA:

http://www.nashuatelegraph.com/news/946520-196/man-was-arrested-removed-from-romney-event.html

BTW, it was in NH not MA.

ETA: Curiously, the police officers don't seem to be defending themselves against the claim that they acted at the behest of the Romney campaign ("the staff"):
So with no evidence of any wrongdoing, they relied on the [Romney campaign] staff's word to arrest him.

I read that entire story and it's painfully obvious that Bieber is an attention whore. The reporter doesn't follow up with the proprietor holding the event and cannot obtain comments from the police department or the Romney campaign. As a result, the story is entirely from Bieber's perspective.

It takes a lot to get yourself arrested at a political event where you are behaving politely (as Bieber describes himself).

You can read between the lines, though. Activist attends political event in the guise of a neutral observer. Activist draws attention to himself through words, tone, or actions. Activist is asked stop the disturbance or voluntarily leave. Activist refuses and escalates activity to provoke a confrontation.

Police arrest and charge activist.

It happens all the time and Bieber writes as though the story is all about him and not about the Romney campaign or anything remotely important for that matter. This is where and why he fails as an activist.

 

[Beth]

I read that entire story and it's painfully obvious that Bieber is an attention whore.

Irrelevant even if true.

It takes a lot to get yourself arrested at a political event where you are behaving politely (as Bieber describes himself).

I'm not so sure about that.

You can read between the lines, though. Activist attends political event in the guise of a neutral observer. Activist draws attention to himself through words, tone, or actions. Activist is asked stop the disturbance or voluntarily leave. Activist refuses and escalates activity to provoke a confrontation.

I don't think you're reading between the lines. I think you are inventing a scenario. Mr. Bieber didn't create a disturbance nor did he refuse to leave. He left the building voluntarily with the police officer who has stated that he wasn't doing anything wrong.

Police arrest and charge activist.

Except he doesn't appear to be an activist, just a citizen attempting to participate in our democratic election process and learn more about the men who are campaigning for president. Besides, even if he was an activist, there's nothing wrong with that nor is it cause for arrest.

It happens all the time and Bieber writes as though the story is all about him and not about the Romney campaign or anything remotely important for that matter. This is where and why he fails as an activist.

Or maybe he fails as an activist because he isn't one.

 

[Spindrift]

They certainly can't arrest people at the direction of their client.

The officer in this case said that's just what he did. He said that Beiber didn't do anything wrong. They arrested him based on the word of the staffers (i.e. Romney's campaign staff).

Sure they can, if their client says someone is trespassing. It is not the cops job to adjudicate a reported crime. Of course, they do have discretion, but they had a reported crime and arrested the suspect. The cops didn't do anything legally wrong. I don't agree with it, but the cops aren't the bad guys here.

 

[crimresearch]

Sure they can, if their client says someone is trespassing. It is not the cops job to adjudicate a reported crime. Of course, they do have discretion, but they had a reported crime and arrested the suspect. The cops didn't do anything legally wrong. I don't agree with it, but the cops aren't the bad guys here.

That depends entirely on the jurisdiction, as pointed out. Some places require a trespass notice to be put in place, and the police can only charge if the person refuses or returns after that has happened.

Other places require the police to see the misdemeanor occurring before making an arrest.

And I don't know of any jurisdiction that has a policy that the police can arrest someone *they* claim wasn't doing anything wrong, just because their employer for moonlighting told them to.

 

[Spindrift]

That depends entirely on the jurisdiction, as pointed out. Some places require a trespass notice to be put in place, and the police can only charge if the person refuses or returns after that has happened.

Other places require the police to see the misdemeanor occurring before making an arrest.

And I don't know of any jurisdiction that has a policy that the police can arrest someone *they* claim wasn't doing anything wrong, just because their employer for moonlighting told them to.

The officer said ""It's the staff's word against his". So while the officer may have felt that Bieber didn't do anything worth being arrested for, there was a complaint.

I can't find anything that has a direct quote from the officer saying Bieber "hadn't done anything" in context.

 

[Brainster]

"he was asked to leave a few times and did not"

Oh, so by 'did not' you meant he did? Again, where did these details appear?

Here. And he did not leave; that much is pretty obvious:

Yesterday morning, I was chatting up a Romney campaign staffer before an event at the Gilchrist Manufacturing Company in Hudson, NH, when a police officer approached. Sir, we have to ask you to leave the premises.

I explained to the officer – his name was Lamarche, and his partner’s was Ducie – that there must have been some misunderstanding. Could I speak to someone from the campaign to clear this up? No. I’d have to leave immediately.

I asked about his authority to remove me. “We’re working for the Romney campaign,” he said. I asked if he was on-duty; he said he was. My confusion deepened. So was he working for the town of Hudson today, or for the campaign? “Both.” (Later, I think I got it straight: the campaign hired the police for the day, sort of like a private security detail.)

Note that although he had left the building, he was still not off the premises. And although they had told him to leave immediately, he continues to question why.

I asked again to speak to someone from the campaign or the company who owned the plant. He refused; the company had delegated authority to the campaign, and the campaign had authorized the police to remove anyone the campaign didn’t want present. But wouldn’t it be simple for me to just talk to someone and explain the mistake? Too many people around, the cop said. Apparently it would be too big a bother. I either had to leave the company’s property or face charges for criminal trespass.

My reason-seeking brain couldn’t take in what was happening. I had come here to be a part of the primary process, to see it first-hand and to write about it.

My reason-seeking brain couldn’t take in what was happening.

His reason-seeking brain was also remaining on the premises. Note as well that he lies here:

I had already attended events with Rick Santorum, Rand Paul, and Newt Gingrich (and I would later see Ron Paul and Buddy Roemer). In each of these instances, I had come to understand the candidates and their views better and had developed greater respect for each of them.

He had developed greater respect for Rick Santorum? Then why did he title his post on that encounter "I’m Pretty Sure Rick Santorum Lied to My Face on Friday"?

In short, this guy is spinning a tale that is at least partially false.

 

[Nova Land]

Matt Bieber has posted two diaries about this incident over at Daily Kos.

He writes a reasonably straightforward account of the incident in the first one: At a Romney Event Yesterday, I Was Removed and Arrested. I Still Don't Know Why.

I’d been in New Hampshire for the past several days to follow the campaign and see some of the candidates in-person. Yesterday morning, I was chatting up a Romney campaign staffer before an event at the Gilchrist Manufacturing Company in Hudson, NH, when a police officer approached. Sir, we have to ask you to leave the premises.

“Sir, is this about my backpack? I’d be happy to show you – there’s nothing dangerous in there.”

“No, sir – we’ll explain it to you outside.”

... Outside, the officer said, “Sir, the campaign has identified you as someone who was at a protest at Romney’s office in Manchester.”

Now I was really confused. Protest? I didn’t even know there had been protests at Romney’s headquarters, and if there had been, I certainly hadn’t been at them...

... My reason-seeking brain couldn’t take in what was happening. I had come here to be a part of the primary process, to see it first-hand and to write about it. I came because I was curious, and on my own nickel. I wasn’t part of any protest group or in anyone’s employ. Couldn’t we just have a reasonable conversation and figure this out?

I asked another question or two, and the cop had had enough: “You’re under arrest.” He took my things, handcuffed me behind my back, searched me, and tucked me into a nearby cruiser....

A day later he wrote a follow-up diary: What I Just Wrote to the Romney Campaign About My Arrest on Monday. It's a polite letter, well-written, and a good model to follow if anyone here ever needs to write public officials:

]Dear Romney staff,

My name is Matt Bieber, and I’m a divinity school student with a keen interest in politics. On Monday, I was removed from Gov. Romney’s event at the Gilchrist Metal Fabricating Company and then arrested. According to the arresting officer, someone on the campaign had ‘identified’ me as a protester at the governor’s offices in Manchester. This was news to me – I hadn’t even been aware that there’d been protests at his offices!

I hadn’t come to New Hampshire to protest, but to listen and learn (and to share some of my experiences on my blog). In fact, I’d come to your offices on Friday to pick up some literature (where I had a pleasant conversation with a young volunteer). I’d also attended Saturday’s debate watch party and had a great time talking with your supporters and staff. I was hoping Monday’s event might be a nice opportunity to see and hear Governor Romney in person.

I’ve written about Monday’s events, but I wanted to offer you the opportunity to respond. Can you please explain why I was removed from the event, and why no one from the campaign was willing to speak to me? If I try to attend another Romney event in the future, can I expect the same treatment?

Yours sincerely,

Matt Bieber

Those interested in following this story might do well to sign up for an account at Daily Kos and then click follow (this link can be found on any of his diaries) so as to be able more easily to follow any future diaries he writes about this matter.

 

[Nova Land]

Here.

Ah! I see you posted a link to his account before me.

I think you are too quick to accuse Bieber of lying, though, particularly in this instance:

I had already attended events with Rick Santorum, Rand Paul, and Newt Gingrich (and I would later see Ron Paul and Buddy Roemer). In each of these instances, I had come to understand the candidates and their views better and had developed greater respect for each of them.

He had developed greater respect for Rick Santorum? Then why did he title his post on that encounter "I’m Pretty Sure Rick Santorum Lied to My Face on Friday".

I see no contradiction there. He did not say he developed great respect, he said he developed greater respect.

There are many people I've known for whom I've initially had a fairly low opinion, and as I've gotten to know them better my opinion of them has gone up. It doesn't mean they became saints in my eyes, or that I would have been surprised if they had continued to do things I would have a low opinion of. That Bieber initially had an extremely low opinion of Rick Santorum based on things he'd read about Santorum, got a better opinion of Santorum after seeing him in person, but believed that one of the things Santorum said to him was a lie, seems quite reasonable.

 

[crimresearch]

The officer said ""It's the staff's word against his". So while the officer may have felt that Bieber didn't do anything worth being arrested for, there was a complaint.

I can't find anything that has a direct quote from the officer saying Bieber "hadn't done anything" in context.

I doubt if you have a clue what the officer said or did not say, since both of us are going on the same 2nd and 3rd hand reports. The words you are choosing to ignore are linked and cited above.

And the point that has flown completely over your head, is that I am pointing out that the information put out so far does not seem to fully support either conclusion.

 

[jj]

And I don't know of any jurisdiction that has a policy that the police can arrest someone *they* claim wasn't doing anything wrong, just because their employer for moonlighting told them to.

But you and I both know that at least some cops can and will do exactly that, and then find a good excuse ex-post-facto to ruin somebody's life like they will ruin this guy's life.

 

[crimresearch]

Here. And he did not leave; that much is pretty obvious:





Note that although he had left the building, he was still not off the premises. And although they had told him to leave immediately, he continues to question why.



His reason-seeking brain was also remaining on the premises. Note as well that he lies here:



He had developed greater respect for Rick Santorum? Then why did he title his post on that encounter "I’m Pretty Sure Rick Santorum Lied to My Face on Friday"?

In short, this guy is spinning a tale that is at least partially false.

Actually, *this* is what your link says:

*************************************************************
...a police officer approached. Sir, we have to ask you to leave the premises.

“Sir, is this about my backpack? I’d be happy to show you – there’s nothing dangerous in there.”

“No, sir – we’ll explain it to you outside.”

I gathered my things and walked past a group of citizens and press, humiliated and confused.

Outside, the officer said, “Sir, the campaign has identified you as someone who was at a protest at Romney’s office in Manchester.”
******************************************************

And you too seem to be incapable of wrapping your brain around the concept that I'm pointing out discrepancies in the *whole* story, not supporting anyone's claims. Whatever the real facts are, I suspect that we aren't getting all of them so far.

Try harder, even if it is an effort for you.

 

[Spindrift]

I doubt if you have a clue what the officer said or did not say, since both of us are going on the same 2nd and 3rd hand reports. The words you are choosing to ignore are linked and cited above.

What words did I ignore?

And the point that has flown comepletely over your head, is that I am pointing out that the information put out so far does not seem to fully support either conclusion.

My conclusion is that Bieber's story is probably pretty accurate. However, I also conclude that the officer didn't do anything wrong either. The one who did wrong is the Romney staffer, whoever that is.

 

[crimresearch]

But you and I both know that at least some cops can and will do exactly that, and then find a good excuse ex-post-facto to ruin somebody's life like they will ruin this guy's life.

And some cops run into burning buildings. Some cops rob banks off duty and kill their partners who were moonlighting. Some cops work for drug dealers. Some cops get Ph.Ds at night.


None of which has anything to do with the fact that the claims about *these* cops actions are not clearly explained by the information provided so far.

 

[eeyore1954]

Hmmm:



Bolding added for emphasis. So this is not some ordinary citizen. I'm not saying that it means he should have been arrested, but it does indicate that there may be more to this whole story than he's telling.

I see it was already pointed out about his post on Santorum