Arnie a Hitler Admirer
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hgc
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That is a good about whether a person not qualified to be President could even be VP. In any case, if one did manage to become VP, the consitution is explicit about qualifications for President, and he would not be able to assume the office.kerfer said:
EdipisReks
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hgc said:
unless the 61st amendment gets passed.
Nyarlathotep
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My first thought this morning when I heard what Arnold is supposed to have said was "Godwin's law just got invoked in the California Recall. They may as well just stop the campaign and have the election now"
Grammatron
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Malachi151 said:
Arnold contacted a Jewish organization (I can't recall it at the moment) about investigating whether or not his father, a Nazi, contributed to the Holocaust. The investigation showed that his father did not, still, Arnold made numerous contributions to different organization that dealt with Holocaust survives and such matters. I don't know what he said when he was 20, but his actions since then do not show him to be a Nazi, quite the opposite.
SRW
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The author of the book proposal, "Pumping Iron" director George Butler, told ABC the quotes needed to be seen in context to be understood. The Los Angeles Times said Friday that its reporters had interviewed Butler two months ago and he had denied Schwarzenegger made such remarks.
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Author flip flops
I don't know for sure but this whole thing has the smell of Gray Davis all over it.
The author of the book proposal, "Pumping Iron" director George Butler, told ABC the quotes needed to be seen in context to be understood. The Los Angeles Times said Friday that its reporters had interviewed Butler two months ago and he had denied Schwarzenegger made such remarks.
________________________________________________
Author flip flops
I don't know for sure but this whole thing has the smell of Gray Davis all over it.
Hmmm....let's look at what AS is claimed to have said:
"Admire" might not be the most describing word to use. But can anyone not acknowledge that Hitler was a powerful speaker? Read Toland, Shirer, Fest, Kershaw, and other's accounts of how Hitler managed to captivate an audience. Sure, Hitler pandered to the lowest common denominator in a crowd, but we cannot close our eyes to the fact that it worked. Wonders, too. We wouldn't have over 50 million people dead, if it hadn't worked. For the first time in history, mass media was combined with a hypnotic speaker - with devastating results. A lesson, paid for with the blood of millions.
Hitler may have been the first, but surely not the last, to use mass media to entice a crowd. Had Hitler only been able to talk to people who were physically present, I seriously doubt that he would have gained power. We cannot eliminate the mass-media factor in this. Hitler, speaking in a crowd, had limited effect, even if it did enthrall the audience. Combined with mass media, death and destruction for millions.
We might not like it (I personally hate the way humans can be swayed in this manner), but to say it didn't happen? Not possible.
Can we "admire" that Hitler was a "good public speaker"? No. But we can "be stunned" at the efficiency of it. Is that "admiration"? I can understand what AS might have wanted to express. Can we use "awe"? That implies some kind of grudging accept (I assume! Correct me if I am wrong), and that is the opposite of what I want to express. But we should acknowledge the efficiency - and cleverness, sorry to say so - of it. Because nobody had ever talked to people this way, and with such profound impact.
"Admire" what Hitler did with it? No. Only repulsion and horror can describe that. But he was the first - in collaboration with Goebbels - to realize what could be achieved, using modern media.
Let's face it: Hitler was also an actor. He took lessons in how to sway an audience. He learned to to control people by convincing them, either by argument or by sheer force. What actor does not want that same "power" over people? To sway an audience into believing you are Richard III, demanding an equestrian solution to your present quagmire? That is the drive of actors, not a $15 million fee per movie.
Julia Roberts, who can only play one part, does not apply here.
That's as clear as it can be. Now, this is a quote we can verify. The others, no. Which should we, as skeptics, rely on? The answer, my friend, is not blowing in the wind.
I am not defending AS in any way - I think it would be a distaster to elect him. California has a bigger budget than France, and is in serious financial trouble, but, hey, that's democracy. But I do think we might have to look at this Drudge Report with great skepticism. After all, Drudge only got one big news story. That doesn't mean he is right for eternity. As for now, we have no confirmation of the old quotes, and how AS really meant it. We do, however, have confirmation what he has said recently.
To go on casting doubt about his views would not only be mudslinging, it would be decidedly unskeptical. To deny that a person can change his mind would be decidedly narrowminded. Even vicious, and comparable to what Republicans did to Clinton.
"Admire" might not be the most describing word to use. But can anyone not acknowledge that Hitler was a powerful speaker? Read Toland, Shirer, Fest, Kershaw, and other's accounts of how Hitler managed to captivate an audience. Sure, Hitler pandered to the lowest common denominator in a crowd, but we cannot close our eyes to the fact that it worked. Wonders, too. We wouldn't have over 50 million people dead, if it hadn't worked. For the first time in history, mass media was combined with a hypnotic speaker - with devastating results. A lesson, paid for with the blood of millions.
Hitler may have been the first, but surely not the last, to use mass media to entice a crowd. Had Hitler only been able to talk to people who were physically present, I seriously doubt that he would have gained power. We cannot eliminate the mass-media factor in this. Hitler, speaking in a crowd, had limited effect, even if it did enthrall the audience. Combined with mass media, death and destruction for millions.
We might not like it (I personally hate the way humans can be swayed in this manner), but to say it didn't happen? Not possible.
Can we "admire" that Hitler was a "good public speaker"? No. But we can "be stunned" at the efficiency of it. Is that "admiration"? I can understand what AS might have wanted to express. Can we use "awe"? That implies some kind of grudging accept (I assume! Correct me if I am wrong), and that is the opposite of what I want to express. But we should acknowledge the efficiency - and cleverness, sorry to say so - of it. Because nobody had ever talked to people this way, and with such profound impact.
"Admire" what Hitler did with it? No. Only repulsion and horror can describe that. But he was the first - in collaboration with Goebbels - to realize what could be achieved, using modern media.
Let's face it: Hitler was also an actor. He took lessons in how to sway an audience. He learned to to control people by convincing them, either by argument or by sheer force. What actor does not want that same "power" over people? To sway an audience into believing you are Richard III, demanding an equestrian solution to your present quagmire? That is the drive of actors, not a $15 million fee per movie.
Julia Roberts, who can only play one part, does not apply here.
That's as clear as it can be. Now, this is a quote we can verify. The others, no. Which should we, as skeptics, rely on? The answer, my friend, is not blowing in the wind.
I am not defending AS in any way - I think it would be a distaster to elect him. California has a bigger budget than France, and is in serious financial trouble, but, hey, that's democracy. But I do think we might have to look at this Drudge Report with great skepticism. After all, Drudge only got one big news story. That doesn't mean he is right for eternity. As for now, we have no confirmation of the old quotes, and how AS really meant it. We do, however, have confirmation what he has said recently.
To go on casting doubt about his views would not only be mudslinging, it would be decidedly unskeptical. To deny that a person can change his mind would be decidedly narrowminded. Even vicious, and comparable to what Republicans did to Clinton.
http://www.cnn.com/2003/ALLPOLITICS/10/03/recall.main/index.html
Somewhat amusingly, I still think the article makes Davis look like the bigger prick. Instead of being professional and saying "I don't think this has any bearing on the race" while keeping the story in the press (which makes him look above the fray) he has to attack Arnold, which is just redundant. Arnold made stupid comments, press will follow up on it regardless, time to play the "I'm above this sort of thing" not "hey look, I can bite his ankle while he's wrestling the gorilla of his own making."
Sheesh, it's like amateur hour in California.
To paraphrase the Daily Show "There you have the paradox of Governor Davis. Even when he's right, he's a prick."
The first version is ambigious and thus open to interpretation, the second seems pretty clear, he expressed admiration for his abilities but not his goals.
Somewhat amusingly, I still think the article makes Davis look like the bigger prick. Instead of being professional and saying "I don't think this has any bearing on the race" while keeping the story in the press (which makes him look above the fray) he has to attack Arnold, which is just redundant. Arnold made stupid comments, press will follow up on it regardless, time to play the "I'm above this sort of thing" not "hey look, I can bite his ankle while he's wrestling the gorilla of his own making."
Sheesh, it's like amateur hour in California.
To paraphrase the Daily Show "There you have the paradox of Governor Davis. Even when he's right, he's a prick."
peptoabysmal
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a_unique_person said:
Are the Democrats getting so desperate they are going to make it legal for Australians to vote? Have you got your absentee ballot in hand as we speak?
Democrats want it so that felons and illegal immigrants can vote, hey why not Aussies?
hgc said:
You are right...I was thinking at the time that the requirements were for being *elected*, but having read that part of the Constitution, the requirements are for serving. So I agree, and this person in question could not assume the duties of president.
a_unique_person
Director of Hatcheries and Conditioning
peptoabysmal said:
We are affected by your politics, why can't we vote for your poltiicians?
I think the LOL indicates I do not take the issue too seriously, if he has, like the ex-Palestinian PM, changed his mind.
Of course, YOU titled the post "Arnie a Hitler admirer" after quoting his (alleged) interview from 1975. This seems to mean, for some reason, that you consider him a Hitler admirer because of what he said in 1975.
Of course, I must be "misinterpreting" you, as usual, right?
Of course, YOU titled the post "Arnie a Hitler admirer" after quoting his (alleged) interview from 1975. This seems to mean, for some reason, that you consider him a Hitler admirer because of what he said in 1975.
Of course, I must be "misinterpreting" you, as usual, right?
Supercharts
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AP Exclusive: Schwarzenegger helped disrupt Nazi gatherings
Found at:
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/news/archive/2003/10/04/state0904EDT0035.DTL
"Inspired by a weight trainer who witnessed Nazi slayings of Jews during World War II, Arnold Schwarzenegger used his menacing muscular physique to help break up neo-Nazi rallies as a teenager, his ex-trainer said Saturday.
In an interview with The Associated Press, gym owner Kurt Marnul said the young Schwarzenegger participated at least twice in organized disruptions of Nazi gatherings near his hometown of Graz during the 1960s."
Further in the story:
"Marnuls's account came as the film star and California gubernatorial hopeful struggles to counter allegations that he once expressed admiration for Hitler's rise to power from humble beginnings.
Schwarzenegger has said he did not recall making such a remark and called the Nazi leader a "disgusting villain."
"It's absurd. It's 100 percent wrong that he could have ever liked Hitler," Marnul said in an interview at his gym, whose walls are plastered with photographs of Schwarzenegger, who began training there at age 15.
On Friday, the Austrian magazine NU, which caters to the alpine nation's Jewish community, quoted former politician Alfred Gerstl as describing how Schwarzenegger and some companions once "hunted down" neo-Nazis who had gathered outside the office of a teaching institute run by an avowed anti-fascist. "
AUP goes down in flames again.
Found at:
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/news/archive/2003/10/04/state0904EDT0035.DTL
"Inspired by a weight trainer who witnessed Nazi slayings of Jews during World War II, Arnold Schwarzenegger used his menacing muscular physique to help break up neo-Nazi rallies as a teenager, his ex-trainer said Saturday.
In an interview with The Associated Press, gym owner Kurt Marnul said the young Schwarzenegger participated at least twice in organized disruptions of Nazi gatherings near his hometown of Graz during the 1960s."
Further in the story:
"Marnuls's account came as the film star and California gubernatorial hopeful struggles to counter allegations that he once expressed admiration for Hitler's rise to power from humble beginnings.
Schwarzenegger has said he did not recall making such a remark and called the Nazi leader a "disgusting villain."
"It's absurd. It's 100 percent wrong that he could have ever liked Hitler," Marnul said in an interview at his gym, whose walls are plastered with photographs of Schwarzenegger, who began training there at age 15.
On Friday, the Austrian magazine NU, which caters to the alpine nation's Jewish community, quoted former politician Alfred Gerstl as describing how Schwarzenegger and some companions once "hunted down" neo-Nazis who had gathered outside the office of a teaching institute run by an avowed anti-fascist. "
AUP goes down in flames again.