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Army Strong

JihadJane said:
Please include some substance in your next post, should you make one.

I note that you haven’t denied that Iraqis were buried alive in the sand by US bulldozers.
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LONGTABBER PE said:
Kewl, I was there for a while with the 10 SFGA

For those who dont know the specifics

These "trenches" were a series of earthworks similar in size to what you would see in WW I trench warfare. They varied in size from about 6-10 feet wide and probably as deep.

There were gun emplacements all over and magazine bunkers and so forth.

Also, there were about 50 odd MILES of them ( thats a LOT of "filling up")

It wasnt so much a tactical problem as it was a time problem ( impedeing mobility)

The decision was made to "punch thru" and it was at key points to keep vehicles moving- most of them were filled in but that was way after the fact by combat engineers and contractors.

As to the nuts and bolts

Armor goes in "buttoned up" and often get movement instructions by observers ( scouts) and such.

They will also kick up a dust storm and to add to it- tactical smoke

Add to that that a buttoned up track has a million BLIND SPOTS that you cannot see anything around you ( thats why they need ground guides)

Now, lets throw a little actual combat in there too and the confusion that goes with it.

You dont stop that mass of rolling steel in the middle of a shooting match and dont expect them to see every man sized target.

Also, any human being with half a brain who SEES a tank charging him from a far distance ( they saw us coming from several kilometers away- there is no way possible to "hide" an ARMOR movement in the desert- its like a tidal wave of moon dust coming right at you) and decides to "stay put" and fight is a damn fool and DESERVES to be buried.

The point is that those who got buried were few but it DID happen- nobody disputes that.

The point is that those soldiers STAYED AT THEIR POST and FOUGHT. ( lots of them didnt too)

THEY made the decision to do that.

I dont doubt for a second that as the "moment of truth" rolled up to them ( with weapons fire and all the demoralization they were experiencing as well as shell shock and all that) many of them made a "last minute' decision to give it up. ( I've seen it happen)

The problem is that in the heat of a firing charge- you dont stop to see who is surrendering versus who is "charging" or ask questions. Also from a tankers perspective ( looking thru the cupola and periscopes) he probably CANNOT SEE them to begin with.

She needs to put this in context as to how it actually went down. She wont because facts and reason arent part of her thought process.
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JJ hasn't quite figured out this "reading" thing yet.
 
Unlike some posters, I will respond to comments, at least for a while.

JihadJane said:
Please include some substance in your next post, should you make one.
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When I deem you up to the challenge, I will, of course, increase the difficulty level of my posting. Sadly, your responses do not indicate that you are ready for anything more challenging.

A+ for enthusiasm, though.


JihadJane said:
I note that you haven’t denied that Iraqis were buried alive in the sand by US bulldozers.
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You note correctly. That brings your grade on this subject up to a D. Now if you would only address the remainder of the topic, specifically the context of the bulldozing, you might work your way up to a C.
 
Garrette said:
Unlike some posters, I will respond to comments, at least for a while.

When I deem you up to the challenge, I will, of course, increase the difficulty level of my posting. Sadly, your responses do not indicate that you are ready for anything more challenging.

A+ for enthusiasm, though.


You note correctly. That brings your grade on this subject up to a D. Now if you would only address the remainder of the topic, specifically the context of the bulldozing, you might work your way up to a C.
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Juvenile.
 
LONGTABBER PE said:
BW went around recruiting people from all ranks of SEALS, Delta, SF, Rangers, Force Recon and other spec ops and line units promising all kinds of money and such. ( they pissed a lot of people off bragging about it too)

They got their wish but they also got the problem children too. They wound up with a highly skilled "force" with a rogue/cowboy mentality that caused more problems than they solved.


My opinion of them isnt high enough to be low
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I don't know too many soldiers who have a high opinion of BW.....

BW should not have been over there in my opinion.
 
newton3376 said:
I don't know too many soldiers who have a high opinion of BW.....

BW should not have been over there in my opinion.
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Blackwater got a boost from GWB as he appeared (at least to me) to want to fight two or more wars on the cheap.

BW has been described as a sort of Elite Praetorian Guard (an image goosed by You Tube vids of BW pilots doing some impressive flying in helicopters...to me at least) Hotlinking to the videos would probably violate Rule 10 as there is a lot of colorful cursing and single fingers. They are said to be paid for on the private by some detractors which allowed for a lot of um...shady Mercenary activity for their...shady employers.

What most YouTubers don't appear to realize is that BW isn't the sole source of elite force in the Theater or military.
 
Just got back from a 5 day FTX. Read through the posts and see that JJ didn't have anything relevant to say (As usual). Carry on.
 
Nosi said:
Blackwater got a boost from GWB as he appeared (at least to me) to want to fight two or more wars on the cheap.
BW has been described as a sort of Elite Praetorian Guard (an image goosed by You Tube vids of BW pilots doing some impressive flying in helicopters...to me at least) Hotlinking to the videos would probably violate Rule 10 as there is a lot of colorful cursing and single fingers. They are said to be paid for on the private by some detractors which allowed for a lot of um...shady Mercenary activity for their...shady employers.

What most YouTubers don't appear to realize is that BW isn't the sole source of elite force in the Theater or military.
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Not really but I can see where people outside the system looking in could see that.

The reality is- the "downsizing" of the military focuses on the "warfighter" ( the current common term) so everything that isnt directly related to the "warfighter" is ripe for being bid to contract.

So, since escorting,security and all those necessary things arent directly related to the "warfighter" ( those are support functions) and are a drain on a units resources- they are farmed out.

BW just had the virtue of being unique and the "first" as well as the right place during the right time.

They COULD have been a positive force and they COULD have been one of the biggest service provider over there and still be.

Its real simple- do what they were contracted to do and obey the rules like the rest of us contractors in theater do.

But NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

They wanted to take matters in their own hands and instead of "defensive fire" ( fire used while you DISENGAGE the enemy)- they wanted to assume an offensive combat role.

The rest is history
 
JihadJane said:
I don't respond to patronizing idiocy.
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You have a penchant for not responding to people who actually know somethng about that which you prefer to bloviate and lie.

True to form.

Trite, even.

Cindy Sheehan is a poor vessel for the anti war message, however real her grief over her lost son, due to her utter failure in understanding how to package a message. Emotion isn't a guarantor of virtue, nor truth, yet you choose to champion that approach.
 
Darth Rotor said:
Yep, and your avatar was not lost on me. ;)
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Thanks, I also have the red arrow and Alladin's lamp too- I know you know the significance- you have that "been there/done it" knowledge.

My personal axe with BW is they dangled money and promises of "bravado" ( ie Soldier of Fortune) type heroism to a lot of young pup operators who bit the hook.

I fault them for being young and stupid on their part but comparing that to E-6 and 7 pay- it was an attractive lure
 
LONGTABBER PE said:
Thanks, I also have the red arrow and Alladin's lamp too- I know you know the significance- you have that "been there/done it" knowledge.

My personal axe with BW is they dangled money and promises of "bravado" ( ie Soldier of Fortune) type heroism to a lot of young pup operators who bit the hook.

I fault them for being young and stupid on their part but comparing that to E-6 and 7 pay- it was an attractive lure
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Aye. Two guys I had formerly served with -- one left the Marines as a Captain, the other as a LTC -- went that way for a few years as the "opportunity" started in Iraq.

The former hung up his cleats in late 2004 or so, the latter shortly after that.

Assessment from the former: money good, real good, working without a net ... hard on the sanity. The latter never had much to say other than "good money, nerve wracking job."

DR
 
Darth Rotor said:
You have a penchant for not responding to people who actually know somethng about that which you prefer to bloviate and lie.

True to form.

Trite, even.
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Thats what I dont understand about her ( among many things)

She acts like there is some kind of denial or cover up going on regarding that.

Hell, I was there ( 2nd echelon)- I dont think it happened- I KNOW it did

I wont comment on the stuff from the alleged first line observers and the gore other than it was embellished a bit but I dont doubt the root story at all.

Yes there were some staunch fighters who stayed at their post and got steamrolled.

Yes, many abandoned them and didnt get it

Yes, many at the moment of decision- who decided ( prehaps too late) to surrender got hosed- thats combat.

Yes, ( even tho I didnt personally see it) a few did get buried alive and get "crunched". I dont "know" it but I'm certain it happened.

Yes, soldiers had issues and nightmares creeped in and feelings of guilt ( if a person didnt have feeling of guilt after killing human beings, war or not- that would concern me greatly) They probably embellished on that a bit. ( I understand that completely)

It was a LEGITIMATE military operation against a LEGITIMATE military objective with LEGITIMATE defending forces- where is the problem?

The defenders had options to run, surrender beforehand- some of them chose to stand and fight. ( regardless of side, thats admirable and the mark of a true soldier)

This crap about "buried alive" like people in a hole with armed people watching like the Nazi's did is totally bogus. Thats not how it went down.

Whats your point JJ? What exactly are you trying to say? What are you trying to pretend happened?

War is hell?- yes it is
People die?- yes they do
it aint fair?- it aint
people surrendering under fire get killed?- yes they do
bad things happen?- yep
blood and gore?- yep

I'm not following you
 
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Garrette said:
Nanner nanner boo boo?
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No, I meant it in an adult way. I found your response extremely juvenile.


Darth Rotor said:
You have a penchant for not responding to people who actually know somethng about that which you prefer to bloviate and lie.
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Are you suggesting I am missing something by not responding to emotionally manipulative comments such as:

Darth Rotor said:
Nice to see Cindy still pissing on the grave of her son, and you along with her.
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??

Darth Rotor said:
True to form.

Trite, even.

Cindy Sheehan is a poor vessel for the anti war message, however real her grief over her lost son, due to her utter failure in understanding how to package a message. Emotion isn't a guarantor of virtue, nor truth, yet you choose to champion that approach.
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Perhaps nurse Darth Rotor should try taking his/her own medicine.

It is the continual resort to brutish emotional manipulation that inspires me to ignore posters' contributions.

A large number of posts on this thread, including your repetitively vacuous abuse, appear to be emotionally driven. Why else would posters feel the need to pepper their posts with childish, playground insults and resort to silly rank-pulling power games?

IMO people with strong, rational arguments do not need to behave like immature thugs in order to get their points across. I have zero tolerance for bullying in all areas. If you think you have something valuable to say and want me to take you seriously try communicating like a civil human being among equals.

As I'm sure you know, bullying is generally not regarded as a sign of strength but as a cover for fear, cowardice and insecurity.

If the abuse offered here is not rooted in these emotions then it is fair to regard it simply as elementary propaganda i.e. name-calling, in which case it is also best to ignore it.
 
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JJ,
You did get an explanation of how and why some Iraqi soldiers were buried in sand.


Why no comments on that?
 
Toke said:
JJ,
You did get an explanation of how and why some Iraqi soldiers were buried in sand.


Why no comments on that?
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JJ's OP has been shreded and all of her attempts to complain or claim some other "evil" of the US military has been totally and utterly demolished.

When you don't have facts or reality on your side, whine and act the victim.
 
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