Arlington County Fire Department vs. the FDNY

[Alt+F4]

Why do the “truthers” treat the Arlington County Fire Department so differently than the FDNY?

In several threads recently and in the Roberts/Gage Hardfire debate, “truthers” said that the initial statements of the FDNY were 100% accurate and the only conclusion was that the WTC was destroyed by a CD. According to the “truthers” it’s impossible for any member of the FDNY to be mistaken or confused regarding what they saw or heard. Of course there is a deafening silence when they are asked to explain why, after almost seven years, not one member of the FDNY has come out publicly in support of a CD of the WTC.

Now when it comes to the Arlington County Fire Department, the tables turn. Dozens of members of the Arlington County Fire Department reported seeing airplane parts, luggage, dead bodies/body parts in the Pentagon, along with the smell of burning jet fuel. Those who propose that American Airlines Flight 77 did not hit the Pentagon dismiss these eyewitness accounts. According to the “truthers” it’s impossible for any member of the Arlington County Fire Department to be correct regarding what they saw or heard because their testimonies don’t match the “truthers” photographic analysis of the crash.

Are firefighters in New York City just smarter or have better hearing/eyesight than firefighters in Northern Virginia? Is it because we have better water fluoridation up here?

 

[abenja1]

Truthers' stances on firemen change often. When firefighter's mention the parts, luggage etc, "they are being paid off by the govt." When the firefighters hear "explosions," they are one of the truthers.

 

[bje]

Why do the “truthers” treat the Arlington County Fire Department so differently than the FDNY?

In several threads recently and in the Roberts/Gage Hardfire debate, “truthers” said that the initial statements of the FDNY were 100% accurate and the only conclusion was that the WTC was destroyed by a CD. According to the “truthers” it’s impossible for any member of the FDNY to be mistaken or confused regarding what they saw or heard. Of course there is a deafening silence when they are asked to explain why, after almost seven years, not one member of the FDNY has come out publicly in support of a CD of the WTC.

Now when it comes to the Arlington County Fire Department, the tables turn. Dozens of members of the Arlington County Fire Department reported seeing airplane parts, luggage, dead bodies/body parts in the Pentagon, along with the smell of burning jet fuel. Those who propose that American Airlines Flight 77 did not hit the Pentagon dismiss these eyewitness accounts. According to the “truthers” it’s impossible for any member of the Arlington County Fire Department to be correct regarding what they saw or heard because their testimonies don’t match the “truthers” photographic analysis of the crash.

Are firefighters in New York City just smarter or have better hearing/eyesight than firefighters in Northern Virginia? Is it because we have better water fluoridation up here?

Your point is correct. And it goes much further than that.

What Truthers don't want to get near is having to present any testimony from the hundreds of other people from different agencies who had direct contact with the wreckage of AA77 both from inside the Pentagon and outside on the lawn. And whose statements are not found on the Internet.

Truthers are fully aware how many hundreds of people saw, removed, or sorted through the wreckage openly on the lawn in the days and weeks after 9/11, including 700 FBI agents. What they count on is the fact that there is virtually no statements from those people publicly available on the Internet. That fact acts as a shield protecting Truthers (so they think) from having to acknowledge that there is any statement to debunk. They thrive, as CIT does, on the relatively little eyewitness testimony of post-crash evidence at the Pentagon available on the Internet.

"What statements?", they demand.

Craig Ranke knows full well that is his crutch and why he only will deal with pre-crash claims and "witnesses". As long as no one can show him statements from those hundreds of people who saw the wreckage, he can summarily dismiss its relevance, and absolve himself of any responsibility to gather those statements himself.

Just ask Ranke why his "citizens investigation team" did not bother to interview any of those hundreds of witnesses and watch him dance, foam at the mouth, and make more excuses than is the norm for him.

Interestingly, I and others started asking for this testimony in early 2002 about those who dealt directly with the wreckage. Dick Eastman, Gerard Holmgren being the two prominent no-planers who dodged the question continually for a few years before they retreated into obscurity.

I have yet to see one 9/11 Truther willing to interview or make any attempt to gather any statement from any of those hundreds of witnesses. To them, if it is not on the Internet they don't have to deal with it. "Phew," they say to themselves.

Such is the nature of 9/11 Denial.

 

[defaultdotxbe]

I have yet to see one 9/11 Truther willing to interview or make any attempt to gather any statement from any of those hundreds of witnesses. To them, if it is not on the Internet they don't have to deal with it. "Phew," they say to themselves.

Such is the nature of 9/11 Denial.

if( !Evidence.OnYouTube() ) { Evidence.Exists = false; }

 

[OldTigerCub]

Why do the “truthers” treat the Arlington County Fire Department so differently than the FDNY?

In several threads recently and in the Roberts/Gage Hardfire debate, “truthers” said that the initial statements of the FDNY were 100% accurate and the only conclusion was that the WTC was destroyed by a CD. According to the “truthers” it’s impossible for any member of the FDNY to be mistaken or confused regarding what they saw or heard. Of course there is a deafening silence when they are asked to explain why, after almost seven years, not one member of the FDNY has come out publicly in support of a CD of the WTC.

Now when it comes to the Arlington County Fire Department, the tables turn. Dozens of members of the Arlington County Fire Department reported seeing airplane parts, luggage, dead bodies/body parts in the Pentagon, along with the smell of burning jet fuel. Those who propose that American Airlines Flight 77 did not hit the Pentagon dismiss these eyewitness accounts. According to the “truthers” it’s impossible for any member of the Arlington County Fire Department to be correct regarding what they saw or heard because their testimonies don’t match the “truthers” photographic analysis of the crash.

Are firefighters in New York City just smarter or have better hearing/eyesight than firefighters in Northern Virginia? Is it because we have better water fluoridation up here?

(bolding mine)
They especially like to dismiss the accounts of the first firefighters on the scene, most notably a couple of firefighters on duty at the Pentagon helipad (Mark Skipper and Alan Wallace) who were on the lawn, and who saw the plane comming right at them, and had to run for their lives and dive for cover to keep from being killed.
"Firefight" by Creed and Newman is on the shelves, and I know several here, beside myself, have read it. Even though it wasn't written as a debunking book, the accounts contained in it blow every twoofer claim about Flight 77 and the Pentagon (that I have heard as of yet) right out of the water.

 

[njslim]

Truthers will never read a book like "FIREFIGHT" - for the simple reason will actually have
to READ it unlike watching some 30 sec Youtube video which plays into their paranoid
fantasy. Books like FIREFIGHT and TOUCHING HISTORY while not "debunking" books in
that they were not written specifically to disprove something are powerful tools in
fighting conspiracy types. Reaction to the books so far has been to ignore them - trying
to argue against the evidence is a losing proposition.

 

[Alt+F4]

Why are "truthers" so afraid of talking to firefighters who were on the job on 9/11 and it's aftermath? I would think that if someone was really after the truth they would want to gather as much information as possible.

 

[Aitch]

Why are "truthers" so afraid of talking to firefighters who were on the job on 9/11 and it's aftermath? I would think that if someone was really after the truth they would want to gather as much information as possible.

They obviously still have some instinct of self preservation. They know what several hundred pounds of angry fireman can do to a twerp in a silly tee-shirt when accused of the various things the twoofers come out with.

 

[sts60]

Arlington was not the only FD on the scene; multiple FDs responded immediately, or later on (even a small Maryland volunteer company which was requested because they had an old ladder truck which could fit through the tunnels). As I pointed out in response to Turbofan on another thread, one of those was Montgomery County (MD). I've mentioned the "no-planers" to a couple of the brothers who were there that day, pulling out pieces of airliner and airline passenger. They think they're idiots.


(Well, "idiots" is a board-friendly euphemism. The language of the firehouse is not delicate.)

 

[Myriad]

Why do the “truthers” treat the Arlington County Fire Department so differently than the FDNY?

In several threads recently and in the Roberts/Gage Hardfire debate, “truthers” said that the initial statements of the FDNY were 100% accurate and the only conclusion was that the WTC was destroyed by a CD. According to the “truthers” it’s impossible for any member of the FDNY to be mistaken or confused regarding what they saw or heard. Of course there is a deafening silence when they are asked to explain why, after almost seven years, not one member of the FDNY has come out publicly in support of a CD of the WTC.

Now when it comes to the Arlington County Fire Department, the tables turn. Dozens of members of the Arlington County Fire Department reported seeing airplane parts, luggage, dead bodies/body parts in the Pentagon, along with the smell of burning jet fuel. Those who propose that American Airlines Flight 77 did not hit the Pentagon dismiss these eyewitness accounts. According to the “truthers” it’s impossible for any member of the Arlington County Fire Department to be correct regarding what they saw or heard because their testimonies don’t match the “truthers” photographic analysis of the crash.

Are firefighters in New York City just smarter or have better hearing/eyesight than firefighters in Northern Virginia? Is it because we have better water fluoridation up here?

I think the answer is obvious, to the point where I wonder if your question is rhetorical. Like asking, "if child bullies always claim to be so tough, why do they pick fights with smaller kids instead of bigger ones?" But let's come out and say it.

Because of the number of NYC firefighters who died, Truther leaders know that they can't get away with directly claiming or insinuating that the FDNY firefighters were "in on it." Such a claim is not credible even among the most gullible. They can only indirectly imply it, by logical implication that they know their real intended audience (unlike the reporters, prosecutors, judges, professional societies, and academics who would only be their intended audience if they actually believed the theories they're promoting) will not be able to follow.

Without a comparable death toll among Pentagon first responders, they know they can get away with more outrageous accusations and insinuations. (But, even there, only among a smaller group of no-plane truthers, and only because they avoid discussing the issue at all costs.)

It's not about the truth and it has nothing to do with respect for the firefighters, which they have none. It's about what they can get away with saying. If most of the FDNY firefighters had received the radio messages, obeyed orders, and fled the towers in the nick of time, rest assured that Truthers would be unanimously accusing them of cowardice, being in on it, murdering the ones that didn't escape in time (because they wouldn't play along), and placing and setting off the demolition charges themselves.

Respectfully,
Myriad