Merged Arizona is at it again / bill to deny citizenship to children of illegals

[Alferd_Packer]

OK, maybe not the whole state, but certainly the most obnoxious part.

Arizona state Sen. Russell Pearce is at it again. The author of the last controversial immigration law is now claiming that he will introduce legislation to strip citizenship from U.S. born children of illegal aliens.

“Anchor babies are an unconstitutional declaration of citizenship to those born of non-Americans. It's wrong, and it's immoral,” he told The Arizona Republic on June 6.

His supporters think that this would somehow survive a court challenge that it is a violation of the 14th amendment.

http://www.thedailybeast.com/blogs-...illegals-vertical-politics/?cid=hp:mainpromo4

(FAIR) also believes a birthright-citizenship law deserves a constitutional court test, to see if the 14th Amendment citizenship clause includes children of “illegal aliens.”

 

[Nosi]

OK, maybe not the whole state, but certainly the most obnoxious part.

Arizona state Sen. Russell Pearce is at it again. The author of the last controversial immigration law is now claiming that he will introduce legislation to strip citizenship from U.S. born children of illegal aliens.



His supporters think that this would somehow survive a court challenge that it is a violation of the 14th amendment.

http://www.thedailybeast.com/blogs-...illegals-vertical-politics/?cid=hp:mainpromo4

Pro Anti-Anchor Baby Plan: Anchor babies cost money to the economy, and certain people dislike putting out for extra mouths to feed. They believe that it provides an incentive for illegals to migrate to this country illegally to drop "eight pound bombs".

Con Anti-Anchor Baby Plan: Denying the Anchor Babies US citizenship can put some, depending on nation of origin (not all are Mexican,) in limbo. If they aren't US citizens, who's nation are they a citizen of?

I personally don't know enough about the facts of this issue to place an opinion on it. The above is the yelling I hear on the media...

 

[Cleon]

The 14th Amendment of the Constitution:

All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside.

I can't wait to see how people try to spin this as Constitutional.

 

[Cleon]

Con Anti-Anchor Baby Plan: Denying the Anchor Babies US citizenship can put some, depending on nation of origin (not all are Mexican,) in limbo. If they aren't US citizens, who's nation are they a citizen of?

More than that, this would create a permanent underclass in the United States. I can think of few legal situations scarier than the idea that someone can be considered "illegal" based on being born to the wrong parents.

Even if you think illegal immigration is the worst crime since puppy rape, this effectively punishes children for the actions of their parents.

 

[SumDood]

What if a woman visiting the U.S. from another country has a baby here and does NOT want the child to be a citizen? Is the child a dual-citizen by U.S. law? Would the mother have to go through the legal process of relinquishing the child's U.S. citizenship?

 

[Cleon]

What if a woman visiting the U.S. from another country has a baby here and does NOT want the child to be a citizen? Is the child a dual-citizen by U.S. law? Would the mother have to go through the legal process of relinquishing the child's U.S. citizenship?

IIRC, IANAL, and other acronyms:

My understanding is that if a foreigner gives birth here, the parents get to choose whether to accept citizenship for the child.

 

[Alferd_Packer]

IIRC, IANAL, and other acronyms:

My understanding is that if a foreigner gives birth here, the parents get to choose whether to accept citizenship for the child.

I don't know about that.

I think a child born here is a citizen regardless of the parents wishes.

 

[Cleon]

I don't know about that.

I think a child born here is a citizen regardless of the parents wishes.

Hrm. I found a Wikipedia page on the subject, which (quelle surprise) doesn't really talk about parental choice.

Since reading legal stuff for too long makes my brain hurt, I'm going to wait for someone who knows what they're talking about to comment.

 

[TraneWreck]

Pro Anti-Anchor Baby Plan: Anchor babies cost money to the economy, and certain people dislike putting out for extra mouths to feed. They believe that it provides an incentive for illegals to migrate to this country illegally to drop "eight pound bombs".

I would need to see some evidence to back this up.

This is one of those strange issues where academic studies almost unanimously contradict conventional wisdom:

Americans believe that undocumented immigrants are exploiting the United States' economy. The widespread belief is that illegal aliens cost more in government services than they contribute to the economy. This belief is undeniably false. [E]very empirical study of illegals' economic impact demonstrates the opposite . . .: undocumenteds actually contribute more to public coffers in taxes than they cost in social services. Moreover, undocumented immigrants contribute to the U.S. economy through their investments and consumption of goods and services; filling of millions of essential worker positions resulting in subsidiary job creation, increased productivity and lower costs of goods and services; and unrequited contributions to Social Security, Medicare and unemployment insurance programs. Eighty-five percent of eminent economists surveyed have concluded that undocumented immigrants have had a positive (seventy-four percent) or neutral (eleven percent) impact on the U.S. economy.

http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=881584

The issue here is focused on anchor babies, and I couldn't find anything that isolated that concept from immigration at large. Given the studies on that immigration, however, the burden is on proponents of the bill (I realize you were just giving pros and cons) to show how "anchor babies" negatively affect the economy where immigration doesn't.

 

[GreyArea]

How often does a baby "anchor" their undocumented parents? Can infants fill out the paperwork?

The term "anchor baby" assumes that having a US citizen child confers immigration benefits on the parents and extended family. This is generally a false assumption, as immigration law does not allow a US citizen child to sponsor his parents until he or she turns 21. ... In addition, if the parents are illegal immigrants, they are usually barred from immigration despite having a sponsor.

So I have to ask if Pearce's scenario ever actually happens at all, and if so how often.

 

[TraneWreck]

I think a child born here is a citizen regardless of the parents wishes.

Yes.

The citizenship clause of the 14th amendment:

"All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside."

 

[funk de fino]

My cousin has just had a little girl in Houston. She will be dual nationality US/Brit. Best of both worlds!

 

[Madalch]

What if a woman visiting the U.S. from another country has a baby here and does NOT want the child to be a citizen? Is the child a dual-citizen by U.S. law? Would the mother have to go through the legal process of relinquishing the child's U.S. citizenship?

"I'm sorry, Mrs. Kravchuk, there was nothing we could do. Your baby was born.... an American."

 

[dudalb]

You can make a good argument that the constitution should be amended to eliminate "accidental" citizenship (someone who, regardless of their parent's citizenship status, is a US citizen because their parents just happened to be on US Territory when they were born) but that will take the full constituional amendment process. The Arizona law is stupid; it is going take a court about five minutes to declare it unconstituional.

 

[dudalb]

My cousin has just had a little girl in Houston. She will be dual nationality US/Brit. Best of both worlds!

Nicole Kidman is probably the most famous "birthright" US Citizen. Her parents, who were both Aussie citizens, were in Hawaii when Kidman was born. She can claim US Citizenship any time she pleases.

 

[ZirconBlue]

"I'm sorry, Mrs. Kravchuk, there was nothing we could do. Your baby was born.... an American."

 

[TragicMonkey]

So, what else is there that's making me, for example, an American? I'm American because I was born here. If we change that requirement, what would it be changed to? My parents are Americans...but only because they were born here also. I never applied for anything, or took a test for it, or paid a fee. If not birth, then what gives me, (and two hundred million or so other Americans) a greater claim to being American than someone else has?

 

[Alferd_Packer]

"I'm sorry, Mrs. Kravchuk, there was nothing we could do. Your baby was born.... an American."

"Oh, Doctor, thank God he's not Canadian"

 

[Alferd_Packer]

So, what else is there that's making me, for example, an American?

Didn't you know? you are Kenyan.

 

[MikeMangum]

Arizona bill to deny citizenship to children of illegals

Arizona bill would deny citizenship to children of illegal immigrants

(CNN) -- A proposed Arizona law would deny birth certificates to children born in the United States to illegal immigrant parents.

The bill comes on the heels of Arizona passing the nation's toughest immigration law.

John Kavanagh, a Republican state representative from Arizona who supports the proposed law aimed at so-called "anchor babies," said that the concept does not conflict with the U.S. Constitution.

"If you go back to the original intent of the drafters ... it was never intended to bestow citizenship upon (illegal) aliens," said Kavanagh, who also supported Senate Bill 1070 -- the law that gave Arizona authorities expanded immigration enforcement powers.

Hrmm. I found all the criticism of the earlier Arizona illegal immigration law to be overblown posturing, but this bill seems to violate the constitution, as far as I can tell.