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Ed aristocratic woman & ex-US convict charged with killing their child

Infant remains discovered near the arrest location.

Ah, ****.

ETA: Marten and Gordon remain in custody, detention extended. Both have been arrested for gross negligence manslaughter. Charges will need to be laid on Friday.

Great tragedy. Amazing turnout by police and volunteers searching the Moulscoomb Nature Reserve, apx 3.5 miles from where the couple were arrested in Stanmer. (Brighton.) It is good that the body has been found so that is closure to this case but very sad that the baby died. My feeling is that the parents were absolutely determined that the authorities were not going to take away this baby, dead or alive. Who goes camping in the woods in January/February? Totally negligent.


The woman had several other children that she put up on Facebook, which appear to have been removed from her because of her choice of partner. I guess people can get very bitter about social workers but the child is not a belonging and its welfare should have come first.
 

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The gender of the found body has not been established, suggestive of extensive decomposition.
 
If the pair's other children have been removed from them because of Gordon being on a sex register (would he be, as someone who served 20 years of a 40 year violent rape sentence in the USA?) but whatever the reason, there seems likely to have been a Children's Act welfare order slapped on them of removal of the baby at birth. It explains why they tried to evade the authorities as soon as Marten's pregnancy became apparent, moving from one flat to another and getting evicted for not paying rent and eventually buying a car with her trust fund money, where she either gave birth or used for escape shortly after. Police are having the placenta found in the car analysed, which should indicate the child's gender. Unfortunately, it appears the car caught fire by accident (or was it by design, thinking the authorities were on to them?) but anyway they managed to escape from the north of England down towards Harwich, hoping to flee by ferry to Europe. That plan seems to have been foiled and they ended up back in the East End of London from whence they had been evicted.

So a police notice went out, 'Have you seen this couple?' and it is at this point the pair seem to have made their way to Newhaven, West Sussex, camping in remote allotments and woods, and then on to Brighton, nearby. Being mid winter, temperatures plunged to subzero at several points during the nights. If the baby was born prematurely, this together with the cold temperature and likely lack of sufficient nutrition to sustain it, means it likely died in all probability of a natural death.

It is hard to comprehend why they did not seek medical help for the child as soon as it was apparent it was ailing and nor did they seem to make any attempt to bury it, having been found, it is reported by one witness, as having been found on a path in the woods nearby the tent the pair were living in, like vagrants. Since being arrested, it appears the pair have a pact of silence and have refused to help the police in any way.

The question is, what is wrong with the pair? Marten seems to have been a good mother in the past so has maternal feelings, as witness her smiling FaceBook pictures. I believe she met Gordon some years ago circa 2016 via a weird TB Joshua cult in Lagos Nigeria, which had a lot of British recruits. Marten seems to have had a personality change after this, giving up all of her friends and drama classes, to which she was enrolled. She likely gave up her job at Middle East News Agency Al-Jazeera [sp?] to become a full time mother to at lest three children by Gordon as of that stage. She seems to have been estranged from her wealthy family for a long time, with I believe her mother or stepmother getting custody of the children. AIUI her father Napier was key in having the kids removed as from his media statements he appears to have taken a strong dislike to Gordon, not surprisingly.

Little wonder, Marten hasn't really had anyone to turn to. I wonder whether her experience in the cult (the SCOAN) caused her to become mentally ill and the loss of her children and birth of this one some kind of post-natal depression. In addition, her dependence on Gordon, who seems to be the sole person in her life, made her vulnerable to his controlling behaviour.

Mark Gordon, from the description of his sadistic crimes, who although he was only 14 at the time, indicates to me that he has a psychopathic nature, which will have been hardened by his 20-years in a high security US jail. His anti-social attitude and determination to not let their latest child go into the care of social services is another aspect of his Borderline Personality disorder. This is a very dangerous man. Now that the pair are in separate cells, I am hoping Marten will start coming to her senses and let go of her over-dependence on this evil character.

The police have until this evening to hold them further without charge. Depending on the outcome of the preliminary autopsy, I am guessing they will be charged by tomorrow of causing the death of a child via child cruelty and neglect, failing to register a birth, preventing burial of a body and possible kidnapping charges, if the unborn child was under guardianship (ward of court).

They will both be in prison a very long time. I think longer than the usual eight years for manslaughter.
 
Both charged with gross negligence manslaughter and other offences. The child was dead for several weeks.
 
I guess this now goes into 'Trials and Errors'? The couple appeared at Crawley Magistrates Court today, instead of Brighton as Gordon needed a disability facility. They have been remanded in custody until an appearance at the Old Bailey on 31 March 2023.

I have looked up possible sentencing and if there is a previous conviction they could get life. It is not sure whether the photo issued of Marten is a police mugshot, which implies she has been arrested before in the past.

It seems the dead child was a baby girl whom the police or the parents named 'Victoria', found under pile of nappies and wrapping in plastic bags in a locked shed.

Bravo to the police and volunteers who managed to find her at all.

The baby of aristocrat Constance Marten is believed to be 'a girl named Victoria,' it was said after the mother and her lover appeared in court today charged with the manslaughter of their newborn.

Marten, 35, and her Mark Gordon, 48, appeared before magistrates in Crawley, where the court heard the baby was found dead in a locked shed wrapped in a plastic bag under a pile of nappies.

They spoke only to confirm their names, dates of birth and that they were of no fixed abode during a short hearing in front of a packed courtroom.

The pair have been remanded into custody charged with manslaughter, perverting the course of justice and concealing the birth of a child.
DM

Autopsy being carried out today.

There is something Charles Mansonite about the way Marten was said to be smiling in court, catching Gordon's eye and blowing kisses at each other, as she in particular is not living in reality. Seems totally unaware of the enormity of the charges.

moved as suggested
Posted By: jimbob
 
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It was touching to see Detective Superintendent Lewes Basford of Sussex Police thanking the public and also specifically thanking the person or persons who found the body of the missing baby.

Nice to see him and his colleagues bring flowers to the makeshift memorial site. Good that police remember that they are ultimately pubic servants and remember that they work together with the community and not against it.

 
I've noticed that when the pair were arrested they were charged on suspicion of 'gross negligence manslaughter', with other lesser charges (failing to register birth and perverting the course of justice). In court yesterday, they were charged with the more serious crime of 'manslaughter' et al.

What is the difference? Gross negligence manslaughter is often to do with medical issues and involves concepts such as 'duty of care' and 'breach of duty' towards the deceased, together with a degree of 'grossness': the crime must be so bad as to be considered 'gross'. Whilst maximum sentencing is life, this tends to be for second listed offenders.

Manslaughter is roughly equivalent to the US concept of second-degree murder. Whilst causing the death of the deceased was not directly intentional, you must have behaved in such a way as to be 'reckless' (as opposed to negligent) and this is assessed by level of dangerousness of your action, (such as firing a gun in a crowed room). Whilst the recommended sentencing relies heavily on elements of culpability (such as planning) and mitigating factors; and other factors such as Domestic Violence, if relevant, Marten and Gordon are looking at at least 18 years for her and 24 years to life for him, as a second serious offender (although the proviso is that his crime in Florida, USA, was committed as a minor so may not count).



Step two Starting Points for the highest culpability can be compared

Gross negligence manslaughter - 12 years' custody
Loss of Control - 14 years' custody
Unlawful Act Manslaughter - 18 years' custody
Diminished responsibility - 24 years' custody
CPS

I presume the last is where had it not been 'diminished responsibility' it would have been first-degree murder.

Manslaughter is a serious specified offence for the purposes of sections 306 and 307 (life sentences for serious offences) of the SA 2020 (which applies to all convictions on or after 1 December 2021). It is an offence listed in Part 1 of Schedule 15 for the purposes of sections 273 and 283 of the SA 2020 (life sentence for a second listed offence) and sections 226-268 and 279- 280 of the SA 2020 and (extended sentence for certain violent or sexual offences) of the SA 2020. See Sentencing Dangerous Offenders legal guidance.
ibid
 
Manslaughter is more equivalent to US concept of manslaughter


I would disagree as the wiki article you cite states that the salient element to a US Manslaughter charge is 'gross negligence'.

However, as we have seen, the CPS (Criminal Prosecution Service for England & Wales) upgraded Marten & Gordon's charge from 'manslaughter by gross negligence' to 'manslaughter due to 'recklessness', which attracts tougher sentencing.

Second-Degree Murder
Second-degree murder is defined as an intentional killing that was not premeditated. In some states, second-degree murder also encompasses “depraved heart murder,” which is a killing caused by a reckless disregard for human life. Second-degree murder is often seen as a catch-all category for intentional and sometimes grossly reckless killings that do not fall within a state’s definition of first-degree murder.
Justia


As you know, the UK does not have a category for 'second-degree murder' so I would say what the twosome are charged with is most closely akin to the US concept of 'second-degree murder', because it the criteria specifies 'recklessness' and 'dangerousness' as opposed to 'gross negligence' (= breach of duty of care to the deceased). Of course, definitions vary between state to state and from country country but I am sure the reasoning is similar.
 
I would disagree as the wiki article you cite states that the salient element to a US Manslaughter charge is 'gross negligence'.

However, as we have seen, the CPS (Criminal Prosecution Service for England & Wales) upgraded Marten & Gordon's charge from 'manslaughter by gross negligence' to 'manslaughter due to 'recklessness', which attracts tougher sentencing...

From the linked wikipedia entry:
Wikipedia said:
...Involuntary manslaughter is the killing of another person without the intent to kill, but where the person's death occurs as a result of the negligent or reckless actions of the defendant...

(Highlighting mine)

The phrase 'gross negligence', and indeed the word 'gross' appear exactly zero times.
 
From the linked wikipedia entry:


(Highlighting mine)

The phrase 'gross negligence', and indeed the word 'gross' appear exactly zero times.

Best to refer directly to the CPS webpage, as the law changed Dec 2021.

https://www.cps.gov.uk/legal-guidance/homicide-murder-and-manslaughter Homicide, Murder and Manslaughter

https://www.cps.gov.uk/legal-guidance/gross-negligence-manslaughter Gross Negligence Manslaughter

As you can see, 'gross negligence manslaughter' has very different criteria than 'homicide, murder and manslaughter', with the salient difference being one is caused by 'gross negligence' and the other by 'recklessness'.

The US version of Manslaughter stipulates 'gross negligence'.

In 'Second Degree Murder'

when a defendant does not intend to kill, but acts with a complete and utter reckless disregard for human life, or a “depraved heart,” this mental state is also sufficient for second-degree murder. One common example of “depraved heart murder” is where an individual shoots a gun into a crowd. He or she may not intend to kill, or to cause a particular person serious harm, but such actions demonstrate a total indifference to human life.
Justia

If you disagree, why in your opinion did the CPS upgrade the charge against the duo from 'gross negligence manslaughter' to 'manslaughter' (and may yet upgrade to murder once the further post mortem is done)?
 
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A quick recap of my posts so far:

...Manslaughter is roughly equivalent to the US concept of second-degree murder...

Manslaughter is more equivalent to US concept of manslaughter

I would disagree as the wiki article you cite states that the salient element to a US Manslaughter charge is 'gross negligence'.

However, as we have seen, the CPS (Criminal Prosecution Service for England & Wales) upgraded Marten & Gordon's charge from 'manslaughter by gross negligence' to 'manslaughter due to 'recklessness', which attracts tougher sentencing...

From the linked wikipedia entry:

Wikipedia said:
...Involuntary manslaughter is the killing of another person without the intent to kill, but where the person's death occurs as a result of the negligent or reckless actions of the defendant...

(Highlighting mine)

The phrase 'gross negligence', and indeed the word 'gross' appear exactly zero times.


With that fresh in the memory, can you explain how the following is in any way responsive to my posts?

Best to refer directly to the CPS webpage, as the law changed Dec 2021.

https://www.cps.gov.uk/legal-guidance/homicide-murder-and-manslaughter Homicide, Murder and Manslaughter

https://www.cps.gov.uk/legal-guidance/gross-negligence-manslaughter Gross Negligence Manslaughter

As you can see, 'gross negligence manslaughter' has very different criteria than 'homicide, murder and manslaughter', with the salient difference being one is caused by 'gross negligence' and the other by 'recklessness'.

The US version of Manslaughter stipulates 'gross negligence'.

In 'Second Degree Murder'

Justia

If you disagree, why in your opinion did the CPS upgrade the charge against the duo from 'gross negligence manslaughter' to 'manslaughter' (and may yet upgrade to murder once the further post mortem is done)?


I note also that you have reiterated your claim that "The US version of Manslaughter stipulates 'gross negligence'".

I will point out, again, that the Wikipedia entry that I linked to does not contain the phrase 'gross negligence', or even the word 'gross'.

You have either not read, have mis-read, or are outright lying about the content of the link.
 
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A quick recap of my posts so far:






With that fresh in the memory, can you explain how the following is in any way responsive to my posts?




I note also that you have reiterated your claim that "The US version of Manslaughter stipulates 'gross negligence'".

I will point out, again, that the Wikipedia entry that I linked to does not contain the phrase 'gross negligence', or even the word 'gross'.

You have either not read, have mis-read, or are outright lying about the content of the link.

If you are going to start hurling abuse, you carry on reading wiki and I'll stick with what the statutes say. I am out.
 

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