Arguments on Edgar Cayce

[sophia8]

When I read to my physician/employer (who is incredibly educated and accomplished; he had a 41-page CV then which is no doubt even longer now) the section on the origins of psoriasis from Cayce's book, you should have seen his face! He was completely floored, and immediately asked me where I had gotten that information. (Dr. N is a big a skeptic as you would ever meet.) After I told him he said nothing.

He said nothing. He didn't say "My God! So that's the cause! How could I have been so blind all these years?"
May be he said nothing because he was flabbergasted that anyone should still be peddling the Leaky Gut rubbish years after it's been debunked.

 

[Arkan_Wolfshade]

Here's straightdope.com addressing Cayce's "healing":
http://www.straightdope.com/mailbag/mcayce.html

I'll try to remember to post quotes from the Cayce chapter in WPBWT when I get home from work.

 

[Rodney]

For example, can you prove that Aime Dietrich was cured by Cayce's treatment, and no other factor? And if so, what evidence are you using to prove it?

Aime Dietrich's father filed an affidavit attesting to the fact that Cayce's prescribed osteopathic adjustments cured his daughter after doctors had been unable to help. Might the recovery have occurred anyway? Not likely, considering she had been developmentally-delayed and seizure-ridden for several years. Further, there are other documented cases where remarkable recoveries occurred following Cayce-prescribed treatment. No, this isn't 100% proof, but why don't skeptics confront these cases, rather than pretending that Cayce was a cold-reading charlatan?

 

[Arkan_Wolfshade]

Aime Dietrich's father filed an affidavit attesting to the fact that Cayce's prescribed osteopathic adjustments cured his daughter after doctors had been unable to help. Might the recovery have occurred anyway? Not likely, considering she had been developmentally-delayed and seizure-ridden for several years. Further, there are other documented cases where remarkable recoveries occurred following Cayce-prescribed treatment. No, this isn't 100% proof, but why don't skeptics confront these cases, rather than pretending that Cayce was a cold-reading charlatan?

Because, at least from my searching for info on the Aime Dietrich case, there is nothing but anecdotal evidence presented. No offical medical transcripts pre- and post- treatment, no objective witnesses recognized by the academic/research communities, etc

From what I could dig up in a few minutes of googling was as much hard evidence of her being healed as of lepers being healed by Jesus.

 

[delphi_ote]

And let's not forget that Lost Angeles and New York were also supposed to sink into the oceans back in 1968.

I don't think LostAngeles was alive in 68.

 

[Rodney]

Here's straightdope.com addressing Cayce's "healing":
http://www.straightdope.com/mailbag/mcayce.html

I'll try to remember to post quotes from the Cayce chapter in WPBWT when I get home from work.

Here is an example of the Straight Dope's accuracy: "Some of his remedies weren't as harmless as a cup of soup. He was apparently among the first to recommend laetrile as a cure for cancer."

I am now a member of Cayce's organization and can do an on-line word search of all of his readings. I just checked out the number of times he recommended laetrile. The answer: Zero. [If you don't believe me, scrape up $49 and become a member of Cayce's organization yourself.] Now, Cayce did frequently recommend eating almonds to prevent cancer, and laetrile can be obtained from various plant substances, including almond seeds. Was Cayce's recommendation to eat almonds to prevent cancer therefore similarly way off-base medically? Perhaps it seemed so when Cayce was alive, but check out this March 2004 Reuters article, titled: "More evidence found of how vitamins prevent cancer." The article begins:
"Vitamin E protects against at least two common forms of cancer -- prostate and bladder -- but popping supplements is probably not the best way to get the vital nutrient, researchers said on Sunday.

"Two studies found that people who either ate the most vitamin E containing food or who had the highest levels in the blood were the least likely to have cancer.

"But the researchers also noted that there are several different forms of vitamin E and the kind you eat -- in this case alpha tocopherol -- is key. And the best-absorbed form of alpha tocopherol is not found in supplements but in foods such as sunflower seeds, spinach, almonds and sweet peppers."
See-- http://in.news.yahoo.com/040329/137/2c9io.html

 

[Hawk one]

I don't think LostAngeles was alive in 68.

This wouldn't have been so embarassing if I hadn't already once referred to LostAngeles as Los Angeles on one occasion.

But you have to admit, considering how much of a looney Edgar Cayce was, he might as well have predicted that Lost Angeles would sink into the ocean as Los Angeles.

And I still wonder why none of Edgar's followers ever reply directly to the point of his completely whacko "predictions", but try to focus on stuff that may be regarded as hits, until you realise that it's nothing paranormal, it's only about keeping a keen eye on politics. I mean, why aren't anyone defending Cayce's predictions about New York sinking into the ocean, and his numerous polar shifts?

 

[Arkan_Wolfshade]

Here is an example of the Straight Dope's accuracy: "Some of his remedies weren't as harmless as a cup of soup. He was apparently among the first to recommend laetrile as a cure for cancer."

I am now a member of Cayce's organization and can do an on-line word search of all of his readings. I just checked out the number of times he recommended laetrile. The answer: Zero. [If you don't believe me, scrape up $49 and become a member of Cayce's organization yourself.] Now, Cayce did frequently recommend eating almonds to prevent cancer, and laetrile can be obtained from various plant substances, including almond seeds. Was Cayce's recommendation to eat almonds to prevent cancer therefore similarly way off-base medically? Perhaps it seemed so when Cayce was alive, but check out this March 2004 Reuters article, titled: "More evidence found of how vitamins prevent cancer." The article begins:
"Vitamin E protects against at least two common forms of cancer -- prostate and bladder -- but popping supplements is probably not the best way to get the vital nutrient, researchers said on Sunday.

"Two studies found that people who either ate the most vitamin E containing food or who had the highest levels in the blood were the least likely to have cancer.

"But the researchers also noted that there are several different forms of vitamin E and the kind you eat -- in this case alpha tocopherol -- is key. And the best-absorbed form of alpha tocopherol is not found in supplements but in foods such as sunflower seeds, spinach, almonds and sweet peppers."
See-- http://in.news.yahoo.com/040329/137/2c9io.html

The almond argument appears to be critics of Cayce vs William A. McGarey, M.D. (or at least the Cayce org's use of his quote). That aside, even if straightdope.com is completely wrong on the laetrile issue, it does not mean that their other critiques are automatically wrong.

 

[ChristineR]

According to Quackwatch the term "Laetrile" is a trade name dating from 1949. As Cayce died in 1945, he could not have used the word "Laetrile." The substance in apricots is "amygdalin," and the full chemical name of Laetrile is "laevo-mandelonitrile-beta-glucuronoside." Amygdalin and related substances were considered as cancer treatments since 1892.

If Rodney is willing, I would find the results of searches on "amygdalin" and "apricot kernels" interesting.

 

[Psiload]

Here is an example of the Straight Dope's accuracy: "Some of his remedies weren't as harmless as a cup of soup. He was apparently among the first to recommend laetrile as a cure for cancer."

I am now a member of Cayce's organization and can do an on-line word search of all of his readings. I just checked out the number of times he recommended laetrile. The answer: Zero. [If you don't believe me, scrape up $49 and become a member of Cayce's organization yourself.] Now, Cayce did frequently recommend eating almonds to prevent cancer, and laetrile can be obtained from various plant substances, including almond seeds. Was Cayce's recommendation to eat almonds to prevent cancer therefore similarly way off-base medically? Perhaps it seemed so when Cayce was alive, but check out this March 2004 Reuters article, titled: "More evidence found of how vitamins prevent cancer." The article begins:
"Vitamin E protects against at least two common forms of cancer -- prostate and bladder -- but popping supplements is probably not the best way to get the vital nutrient, researchers said on Sunday.

"Two studies found that people who either ate the most vitamin E containing food or who had the highest levels in the blood were the least likely to have cancer.

"But the researchers also noted that there are several different forms of vitamin E and the kind you eat -- in this case alpha tocopherol -- is key. And the best-absorbed form of alpha tocopherol is not found in supplements but in foods such as sunflower seeds, spinach, almonds and sweet peppers."
See-- http://in.news.yahoo.com/040329/137/2c9io.html

Alrighty... let's look at exactly what Cayce did claim regarding almonds and cancer:

"Those who would eat two to three almonds each day need never fear cancer." (1158-31)

"If an almond is taken each day, and kept up, you'll never have accumulations of tumors or such conditions through the body." (3180-3)

"Eat an almond each day - one almond - the body will have no more trouble or recurrence of this nature(breast cancer)through the system." (3515-1)

So... are these claims way off-base medically? Yes. Yes they are.

I'm not saying there absolutly CANNOT, IS NOT, NEVER WAS a single grain of truth in anything that Cayce ever claimed. Cayce does seem to have dispensed common sense nutritional advice on occassion, but even then, he still had to stretch it into a claim of absurdly miraculous proportions. And he was by no means an original, a maverick, or a peerless pioneer when it came to his theories on diet and nutrition. In short...

When he was original, he was incorrect. When he was correct, he was not original.

 

[UrsulaV]

Aime Dietrich's father filed an affidavit attesting to the fact that Cayce's prescribed osteopathic adjustments cured his daughter after doctors had been unable to help.

Ah. So your "proof" is an anecdote.

Tell me, if I had a filed affadavit saying Cayce was a fraud--with no charts, no X-rays, just a signed testimony that "I think Cayce didn't do jack for me!"--would you accept THAT as proof?

Somehow, I have my doubts that you'd let such a shoddy standard of evidence go if it wasn't supporting your pet theory.

 

[Steven Howard]

Later I learned about the underlying cause of psoriasis, a gut disorder known as LGS (leaky gut syndrome). LGS can manifest as all kinds of problems, not just psoriasis/psoriatic arthritis. So... the bottom line is, psoriasis does indeed begin in the gut. So in that respect, at least, Cayce was not wrong. (One can Google LGS and read the works of Walt Stoll, M.D., Leo Gallaland, M.D. etc.)

WebMD says otherwise:

For reasons that doctors don't yet understand, the immune systems of people with psoriasis malfunction. One type of white blood cell - the B-cell - begins creating antibodies that destroy normal skin cells. Another type of white blood cell - the T-cell - begins overproducing a substance called cytokines. This overproduction turns off a signal that controls the growth of skin cells.

 

[Rodney]

According to Quackwatch the term "Laetrile" is a trade name dating from 1949. As Cayce died in 1945, he could not have used the word "Laetrile." The substance in apricots is "amygdalin," and the full chemical name of Laetrile is "laevo-mandelonitrile-beta-glucuronoside." Amygdalin and related substances were considered as cancer treatments since 1892.

If Rodney is willing, I would find the results of searches on "amygdalin" and "apricot kernels" interesting.

I just did the requested searches. Cayce never mentioned either amygdalin or apricot kernels. He did recommend apricots to some people, but he never mentioned apricots and cancer in the same reading.

 

[Rodney]

Alrighty... let's look at exactly what Cayce did claim regarding almonds and cancer:

So... are these claims way off-base medically? Yes. Yes they are.

How do you know? Has there been a study that showed some people who ate almonds every day contracted cancer?

 

[Psiload]

I just did the requested searches. Cayce never mentioned either amygdalin or apricot kernels. He did recommend apricots to some people, but he never mentioned apricots and cancer in the same reading.

I guess he didn't need apricots... what with the sure-fire, never fail, three-almonds-a-day cancer prevention regime.

 

[Arkan_Wolfshade]

If there had been, I'm guessing the info would be available here http://search.cancer.org/search?cli...stylesheet=amcancer&restrict=cancer&q=almonds

 

[Luke T.]

Anecdote:

I used to live in Virginia Beach. As every Edgar Cayce fan knows, that is the home of A.R.E.

I used to visit A.R.E. for laughs often. They also had a nice meditation room which I visited when I was suffering from depression.

As you walk into A.R.E., in the lobby there is one of those ESP test setups with the five cards. You know the ones, wavy lines, circle, triangle, square, and, uh, I forget the fifth one. Oh, yeah, a cross.

Anyways, I made friends with a guy who worked there. You know what he told me the magic elixer they sold to rubes was? The formula supposedly passed on by the Sleeping Prophet as a wonder cure?

Coca-Cola syrup.

Yes, my friends, Edgar Cayce cracked the Coke vault and stole their magic formula.

Or something...

 

[Psiload]

How do you know? Has there been a study that showed some people who ate almonds every day contracted cancer?

Probably not. You'd think the A.R.E. would've conducted an experiment along those lines by now. I guess they're too busy selling magical Coke syrup, playing with zener cards, and giving past life readings to tackle something as insiginificant as a moronically simple, 100% effective cure for cancer.

Go figger'

 

[Rodney]

Ah. So your "proof" is an anecdote.

Tell me, if I had a filed affadavit saying Cayce was a fraud--with no charts, no X-rays, just a signed testimony that "I think Cayce didn't do jack for me!"--would you accept THAT as proof?

Somehow, I have my doubts that you'd let such a shoddy standard of evidence go if it wasn't supporting your pet theory.

Let me give you some more information. Aime Dietrich's father -- Professor Charles Dietrich -- was, in the words of Sidney Kirkpatrick, author of "Edgar Cayce -- An American Prophet," "one of the most-respected residents of Christian County(Kentucky) . . . he took over as superintendent of schools. He literally turned the school system upside down, lobbied to pass a bond issue, and as a result, gave the Hopkinsville school system a reputation for being far ahead of any town of its size south of Columbus, Ohio." See "An American Prophet" at p. 103.

Professor Dietrich filed his affidavit on October 8, 1910. A copy is on file at Cayce's Association for Research and Enlightenment in Virginia Beach, VA and is available on-line, Reading 2473-1. The affidavit concludes:

"March 1st, 1902, she [Aime] was taken to Dr. Hoppe of Cincinnati,
O., who made a most thorough examination. He pronounced
her a perfect specimen physically, except for the brain
affection, concerning which he state[d] that only nine cases
of this peculiar type were reported in Medical Records, and
every one of these had proved fatal. He told us that nothing
could be done, except to give her good care, as her case was
hopeless and she would die soon in one of these attacks.

"At this period our attention was called to Mr. Edgar Cayce,
who was asked to diagnose the case. By auto-suggestion, he
went into a sleep or trance and diagnosed her case as one of
congestion at base of the brain, stating also minor details.
He outlined to Dr. A. C. Layne [Al C. Layne, D.O.], now of
Griffin, Ga., how to proceed to cure her. Dr. Layne treated
her accordingly, every day for three weeks, using Mr.
Cayce occasionally to follow up the treatment, as results
developed. Her mind began to clear up about the eighth day
and within three months she was in perfect health, and is so
to this day. This case can be verified by many of the best
citizens of Hopkinsville, Ky."

Not exactly your garden variety "anecdote."

 

[Rodney]

Anecdote:

I used to live in Virginia Beach. As every Edgar Cayce fan knows, that is the home of A.R.E.

I used to visit A.R.E. for laughs often. They also had a nice meditation room which I visited when I was suffering from depression.

As you walk into A.R.E., in the lobby there is one of those ESP test setups with the five cards. You know the ones, wavy lines, circle, triangle, square, and, uh, I forget the fifth one. Oh, yeah, a cross.

Anyways, I made friends with a guy who worked there. You know what he told me the magic elixer they sold to rubes was? The formula supposedly passed on by the Sleeping Prophet as a wonder cure?

Coca-Cola syrup.

Yes, my friends, Edgar Cayce cracked the Coke vault and stole their magic formula.

Or something...

Your anecdote did not improve upon your retelling it.