bigjelmapro
Illuminator
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Pfft. Was thinking the same about the misguided leftist extremists...and the right-wing Islamists who usually enjoy eachother's company.
Arguments Against Israel
- Thread starter Bombastic Penguin
- Start date
The West Bank is not part of Israel.
Palestinians in the West Bank are NOT Israeli citizens.
Yet Israel rules more then 60% of the West bank...and settled 250,000 of its citizens there.
Go figure.
webfusion
Philosopher
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Another incorrect statement from you.
Some parts of the West Bank are indeed within Israel.
Jerusalem Law, 1980.
Nor do they wish to be, as those who live within the East Jerusalem portion of the West Bank have proven, when offered exactly that.
They (by and large) reject the very notion of being recognized as Israelis.
WIKI indicates 475,000 Jewish residents of the West Bank. Where did you get your numbers?
Since these disputed territories have not been part of any state (Jordanian annexation was never officially recognized), it would seem to me that Jews have as much right to live there as anywhere.
Yep.
1.The only parts of the West Bank that are part of Israel, are the section of east jerusalem.
2. The Wiki article is referring to the 250,000 Jews who live in East Jerusalem. Them plus the settlers in the WB equals 500,000.
3. The Jordanian annexation of the WB was illegal. Israel's settling of its citizens within the WB is equally illegal. I would have been making threads condemning Jordan's annexation of the WB in 1965...but I wasn't born yet..and nor was JREF.
webfusion
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Again your facts are skewed, and it skews your reply.
A) You said that "the West Bank" was not Israel.
I pointed out your error.
B) I have no idea what WIKI article you are reading, but here is the number from the article I am using as a source:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/West_Bank
"There are over 275,000 Israeli settlers living in the West Bank, as well as around 200,000 living in Israeli-annexed East Jerusalem."
C) There is plenty of discussion about the "legality" of Jews living in areas that are disputed. In the meantime, there has been no definitive resolution of that issue.
I wouldn't place any bets on them leaving, however. Not in our lifetime.
A) You said that "the West Bank" was not Israel.
I pointed out your error.
B) I have no idea what WIKI article you are reading, but here is the number from the article I am using as a source:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/West_Bank
"There are over 275,000 Israeli settlers living in the West Bank, as well as around 200,000 living in Israeli-annexed East Jerusalem."
C) There is plenty of discussion about the "legality" of Jews living in areas that are disputed. In the meantime, there has been no definitive resolution of that issue.
I wouldn't place any bets on them leaving, however. Not in our lifetime.
fine. a few square miles of the West Bank was actually annexed by Israel. ALL of these areas are in East Jerusalem and mostly populated by Arab Muslims.
there are 275,000 jews in the WB and 200,000 jews in East Jerusalem. that comes to around 500,000.
i hope and pray that the jewish settlers will leave the WB willingly or become citizens of Palestine. the others, well, may have a problem.
webfusion
Philosopher
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And Arab Armenians. And Arab Bedouin. And Arab Circassians. And Arab Copts. And Arab Ethiopians. And Arab Ba'h'ai. And Arab Protestants, Arab Greek Orthodox, Arab Syrian Orthodox. All given full protection under the laws of Israel and freedom of worship.
The same could not be said of the situation prior to 1967.
In the 1949 Rhodes Armistice, such freedom of access for all was promised, and then denied in practice. Only in the aftermath of Israel's liberation of the land from Jordanian rule, was there an open city.
No, it comes to about 475,000.
i hope and pray that the jewish settlers will leave the WB willingly or become citizens of Palestine. The others, well, may have a problem.
Why the smiley?
The Jews are primarily going to remain right where they live now, in the homes they bought. In Alfe Menashe. In Ma'ale Adumim. In French Hill/Mt Scopus. In Gilo. In Ariel. etc etc.
Arab Armenians??? Arab Circassians??? Arab Ethiopians?
who are these fantasy nationalities you just made up?
Circassian is a religion?
Ethiopian is a religion?
Armenian is a religion?
wow...your posts have lost all credibility my friend. how very very sad.
webfusion
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parky76, I cannot fathom why you don't just use google.
Circassians.
http://www.geocities.com/jaimoukha/Circassian_Religion.html
I am not sure if they still practice the pure form of their religion. But in Israel today, they are considered a unique RELIGIOUS sect.
Ethiopians.
http://www.tadias.com/2008/08/16/history-of-ethiopian-church-presence-in-jerusalem/
Reference to the Ethiopian Orthodox Church. (See: Church of Holy Sepulchre)
Armenians.
http://www.holyland.org/
The Armenian Patriarchate of Jerusalem is the second most venerated of Holy Sees of the Armenian Church, after the Holy See of Etchmiadzin. Its preeminence stems from its unique role as the keeper and protector of the rights and privileges of Armenian Holy Sites in the Holy Land.
You're welcome, I know you appreciate me doing all that research for you.
Circassians.
http://www.geocities.com/jaimoukha/Circassian_Religion.html
I am not sure if they still practice the pure form of their religion. But in Israel today, they are considered a unique RELIGIOUS sect.
Ethiopians.
http://www.tadias.com/2008/08/16/history-of-ethiopian-church-presence-in-jerusalem/
Reference to the Ethiopian Orthodox Church. (See: Church of Holy Sepulchre)
Armenians.
http://www.holyland.org/
The Armenian Patriarchate of Jerusalem is the second most venerated of Holy Sees of the Armenian Church, after the Holy See of Etchmiadzin. Its preeminence stems from its unique role as the keeper and protector of the rights and privileges of Armenian Holy Sites in the Holy Land.
You're welcome, I know you appreciate me doing all that research for you.
The "New Historians" are.
"Circassians is a term derived from the Turkic Cherkess (Çerkes) and is not the self-designation of any people. Circassians, term used to designated various peoples of the north Caucasus. Today a significant number of "Circassians" live in diaspora.
More commonly it has referred to all the peoples of the northwest Caucasus (including Cherkes, Shapsugs and Kabardin), and also to Abkhaz, Abazins and Ubykh (linguistically vanished) ("Circassians" in the broadest sense).
The term's vagueness stems largely from the fact that the northern Caucasus was a remote and relatively unknown area for Westerners and Turks, who often did not distinguish carefully among similar groups living there."
"The Armenians (Armenian: Հայեր, Hayer) are a nation and ethnic group originating in the Caucasus and in the Armenian Highlands. A large concentration of them has remained there, especially in Armenia, but many of them are also scattered elsewhere throughout the world (see Armenian diaspora). The Armenians have had a significant presence in countries such as Georgia, Iran, Russia, and Ukraine due to their proximity to Armenia. After the Armenian Genocide, a large influx of survivors fled to France, the United States, Argentina, the Levant and other countries that welcomed the Armenians. There are an estimated 8 million Armenians around the world.[17]
Circassians and Armenians are both an ethnic group. Not a religion.
No need to thank me. And they are both NOT ARABS!!!
what a stupid thing to suggest. its suggests an incredible lack of understanding of the peoples of the region.
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webfusion
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Are most of the people living in East Jerusalem really Arab Muslims?
You classified them as Arabs.
But, the term "Arabs" is used loosely in Israel to describe pretty much anyone who is a Palestinian, no matter their original ethnic source. Even Iranians are called Arabs. So are Turks. So are Afghanis. So are the Sudanase. So are the Moroccans.
Etc etc.
I was merely pointing out that there are other religious groups among the Arab Palestinians (such as the followers of the Armenian Church and the Circassians who are considered a distinct religious sect, not unlike the Druze) besides just your category of "Arab Muslims."
Anyway, your sidetracking is a waste of our time. It adds nothing.
The underlying concept of my posts is valid:
That religious freedoms under Israeli rule are unparalleled in the region.
And beyond that, you kept trying to refer to:
"the lines that demarcated Israeli sovereignity as of June 4th, 1967."
and I have successfully moved you away from that false claim, by offering proper evidence of the exact wording of the 1949 Armistice.
You classified them as Arabs.
But, the term "Arabs" is used loosely in Israel to describe pretty much anyone who is a Palestinian, no matter their original ethnic source. Even Iranians are called Arabs. So are Turks. So are Afghanis. So are the Sudanase. So are the Moroccans.
Etc etc.
I was merely pointing out that there are other religious groups among the Arab Palestinians (such as the followers of the Armenian Church and the Circassians who are considered a distinct religious sect, not unlike the Druze) besides just your category of "Arab Muslims."
Anyway, your sidetracking is a waste of our time. It adds nothing.
The underlying concept of my posts is valid:
That religious freedoms under Israeli rule are unparalleled in the region.
And beyond that, you kept trying to refer to:
"the lines that demarcated Israeli sovereignity as of June 4th, 1967."
and I have successfully moved you away from that false claim, by offering proper evidence of the exact wording of the 1949 Armistice.
Last time I heard, only Palestinians over the age of 40 were allowed to go to the Temple Mount. You call that religious freedom?
There is no civil marriage in Israel. So basically, only Jewish weddings are recognized. You call this religious freedom?
Only Israeli citizens of the Jewish faith are allowed to move to the Israeli tax dollar funded settlements in the West Bank. This is religious freedom?
pathetic.
webfusion
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Do you know why that is?
I do.
To reduce the instances of rioting there.
- Jerusalem police commander Ilan Franco said that the restrictions on West Bank residents were put in place for "security reasons" and added that no restrictions were placed on Israeli Arabs or East Jerusalem residents.
Some 160,000 Muslims gathered at the Temple Mount for prayers around noon Friday.
I sometimes wonder about where you get this stuff from. Do you just decide to sit there and invent random things?
All marriages performed by official clergy are recognized in Israel. Including marriages performed by Imams, Priests, Rabbis.
Most neighborhoods in Israel are organized de-facto along religious preferences --- Jews and non-Jews. To each their own.
The kibbutzim are also like that. It's a cultural divide, and is not easily overcome.
1st Arab Muslim given Kibbutz membership
This is not a phenomenon unique to settlements across the Green Line.
You want to paint it like that, but that is just a dishonest commentary on your part.
What is?
That I keep having to correct you?
Gilbert doesn't have Morris's baggage.
That is disgusting. I wasn't aware of this. I didn't know segregation spread throughout the entire country.
And banning all Arab males under the age of 40 from going to the Temple Mount during the Muslim Sabbath is pathetic collective punishment. It is a clear example of restricted religious-freedom.
45 year olds can't throw rocks???
Just more reasons why I live in the United States.