Are "woo" researchers ever fully discredited?

Yup, but he's making a comeback. Peter PopoffWP

:jaw-dropp No, no, no! Darn you humanity and your short memory!

CynicalSkeptic, you owe me a link to something humanity has done to better itself so I can restore some semblance of respect for it. It better be a good one, too.

I feel sick...
 
Some specific paranormal or pseudoscientific effects do go out of fashion, but not very often. Off the top of my head, I can only think of three: slate writing (because nobody has slates any more, for one thing), ectoplasm, and biorhythms.

You remember biorhythms. You did some math based on your birthday and it told you what kind of day you were going to have. Back in the '70s they used to print them in the newspaper right next to the other "woo" features: horoscopes and Ann Landers.

Biorhythms rubbish is still around.
 
Who was the character that claimed to be able to form photographic images on polaroid film using only his "mind", but got busted holding tiny little pictures in his hand as he snapped the pix?
Is he still around?
 
Who was the character that claimed to be able to form photographic images on polaroid film using only his "mind", but got busted holding tiny little pictures in his hand as he snapped the pix?
Is he still around?


If he's still around, he's probably having a hard time finding film these days. Have you tried to buy film for your old Poloroid camera lately?
 
Good point...but I hear there's an opening for a guy who can mind-project into a digital camera...I should start practicing.
 
Who was the character that claimed to be able to form photographic images on polaroid film using only his "mind", but got busted holding tiny little pictures in his hand as he snapped the pix?
Is he still around?

Ted Serios! I haven't heard of him in ages. Wikipedia says he died around 1990.
 
And what two hoaxed Bigfoot videos? Dr. Meldrum exposed Snow Walker. What other hoaxed Bigfoot video are we talking about here?

Pethaps he is refering to the Redwoods footage? I'm not an avid follower of Meldrum's every word (however much I have been accused of it) so I don't know exactly what comments Meldrum made on the Redwoods footage. I don't know if he actually claimed the Redwoods footage was the real deal.

BTW, experts can be wrong, but only if they're on the other side. ;)

Quite.
 
Pethaps he is refering to the Redwoods footage? I'm not an avid follower of Meldrum's every word (however much I have been accused of it) so I don't know exactly what comments Meldrum made on the Redwoods footage. I don't know if he actually claimed the Redwoods footage was the real deal.

He said this in Jan.,2004, replying to Scott Heriott:

"Everytime this discussion resumes I see that I really need to write up
this incident and get it out there. If I only had more time ( I shoudn't
be responding to this).

I can't comment on Scott's conversation with the owner of Trees of
Mystery. I have personally interacted with him and while he seems to be
working the angle like any entrepenuer, he struck me as otherwise a
straight-shooter. He readily supplied me with samples of hair he had
been given by a local, which we readily identified as bear. He provided
contact information for local eyewitnesses, and was otherwise spoken of
well by local contacts I made.

Look, I am not out to champion this particular piece of evidence. I just
get weary of people perpetuating inaccurate information. If the video is
to be rejected, then do it on the basis of sound data.

First, it was not a "Playboy crew" -- it was the crew of Adventures
Television. The hostess was a former playmate. So what?

Second, there is muscle definition. Jeff Glickman called them folds in
the fabric, but the "folds" are located along the line of the vastus
lateralis and the insertion of the gluteus maximus. Look at an atlas.
Coincidence?

Third, it walks like it just had a Thorazine milkshake? Where is that
coming from? In the initial footage it is striding away from the RV and
under ideal playback conditions it looks alot like the Patterson film
subject. When overtaken by the RV it reacts to the bright headlights and
glares at the witnessesbriefly before promptly stepping into the bush.

Fourth, "unexplained white lines on the base of the feet" -- As I have
repeatedly explained, it was raining and any smooth wet surface
illuminated by the headlights bounced back enough light to washout the
video image, plain and simple. The leaves on the adjacent bush, the
barkless tree tunk, the whatever-it-was at the crotch, AND the hairless
sides of the soles of the feet, were all washed out and appeared "white."

Fifth, wrong again, -- it did not walk twice in front of a moving RV --
It first came onto the road on the right shoulder some distance ahead
when the RV was attemting to back up and walked down the road away from
the RV around a slight leftward bend in the road. This is a narrow
one-lane road, btw. They drove forward to overtake it, at which point it
headed back to the right shoulder, toward the river, as the RV came to a
halt just short of it and turned on the brights. It was virtually an
equal distance to go right or left at that point and getting back to
the nearby river makes more sense to me as an escape route than going
the other direction. Going randomly through that forest off-trail
presents "momumental" obstacle, even for a nearly 8 foot Sasquatch (Oh,
and that height estimate was independently confirmed by multiple methods
on site).

Also:

"We did get the factory specs on the RV, interior and exterior. We got
the stading height of the cameraman. We could very reasonably estimate
the distance from the RV to the subject by recreation on site. Granted
there is room for error, but the margins are quite small given the
distances involved. The subject stepped directly behind a tree that was
clearly identifiable on site. There was an onvious knob on the trunk
that the subject's head passed reltively close under. That knob measured
8'2" off the ground as I remember (I have to go back to my notes). Our
triangulations based on foreground reference points and then background
reference points converged on 7' 9" tall. I am quite comfortable given
the distances involved, in bracketing the height between 7 1/2 and 8
feet tall.

For another perspective we backed the rangers truck to the spot, stacked
some cases and took a picture from the approximate height of me about to
step behind the tree. I was dwarfed at 6'1".



When people with cameras have sightings and film them, it's suspicious, but when people without cameras have sightings, it's suspicious because they didn't film them. See how that works?
 
Ted Serios! I haven't heard of him in ages. Wikipedia says he died around 1990.

That's kind of sad, when you think about it. *The guy became obscure enough that even someone interested enough to write a wikipedia page about him couldn't*find*out*when*he*died.

*
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Oh, good. There weren't nearly enough Bigfoot threads.


My thoughts exactly.

I guess that answers the question posed in the opening post of this thread. No matter how many other logical and mundane explinations there are for whatever "woo" phenomina they're discussing, if there is an all-but-zero chance that it's aliens/Bigfoot/psi/Nessie/or 9/11 conspiricy, their belief won't die. There is no stake in the heart for these true believers.
 
Yes they do get discredited. It just takes a looong time.

Met any alchemists lately?

You can get an idea how long it takes by looking at a real example. For instance a century ago a big thing was sightings of fairies. There were sightings. There were pictures. Sir Arthur Conan Doyle (the author of the Sherlock Holmes series) was a very prominent supporter.

While there are still people around who believe in fairies, it isn't a particularly popular belief. Eventually it is likely to descend to alchemy levels. But it will take a long while. (And new ideas will inevitably come along.)

Cheers,
Ben
 
Yes they do get discredited. It just takes a looong time.

Met any alchemists lately?

Sadly, alchemy isn'y quite dead. There are still a few nut-cases around trying to distill "red oil" from urine. I guess that's one of the first steps in making the philosophers stone. :-P

Chaucer said it best;

"Their scientific jargon is so wolly
None can hope to understand it fully,
Not as intelligence goes nowadays.
And they may go on chattering like jays
And take delight in their chatter
But for all they’ll never solve the matter.
If you are rich, it’s easy to be taught
How to transmute and bring your wealth to naught."

The Canons Yeoman’s Tale,
Geoffrey Chaucer
 
Sadly, alchemy isn'y quite dead. There are still a few nut-cases around trying to distill "red oil" from urine. I guess that's one of the first steps in making the philosophers stone.
Chaucer said it best ...
I dare say he did. What I wonder about is- if phrenology is really dead as I think it is (apparently, unlike alchemy); what killed it? I like to give Mark Twain credit for ridiculing it. Can we find another "Mark Twain" to take on today's woo?
 
He said this in Jan.,2004, replying to Scott Heriott:

Thanks LAL. I hadn't read that before.

When people with cameras have sightings and film them, it's suspicious, but when people without cameras have sightings, it's suspicious because they didn't film them. See how that works?

I know what you mean.
 
My thoughts exactly.

I guess that answers the question posed in the opening post of this thread.

No it doesn't really because some of the comments in the opening post were incorrect information. This is what has been pointed out. As you can see, the opening poster hasn't even tried to defend his original incorrect information after I pointed out he was wrong to state unverified unproven opinions as 'facts'.

There is no stake in the heart for these true believers.
It would also seem there is no steak in the heart for these true scoftical denialists.
 

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