Are there any modern Socialists?

[RandFan]

Some people are simply unable to do what you suggest.

What is it that I suggest? I'm not certain but I think you missed the point of my post.

The promise of advancement is simply irrelevant.

Simply asserting something makes for poor argument. But let me retort, it is entirely relevant (which you would seem to agree with in your final paragraph). It is why China is changing its view of capitalism. It's why the Soviets had so many problems like wheat rotting in storage for lack of effecient distribution.

FTR, I'm not anti socialist.

However, I don't think socialism is incompatable with encouraging people to do as you suggest. A system that helps lower barriers to entry into a market, that protects the mom and pop concern against multi-national corporations, and so on. Having universal healthcare would encourage more of this activity, as it is a major problem for people of modest means wanting to start a business.

Again, you miss the point of my post. Do entrepenuers emerge in socialist societies? Of course. Is it the most conducive to innovation and entrepenuership? I wouldn't argue with your points but I think you are one of the blindfolded men examining an elephent. Yes, these points are significant but they are a fraction of the variables involved in such a complex and dynamic system as markets in Western Democracies.

The desire to advance oneself is probably something else intrinsic to human nature that must be recognized, on par with market forces, and disenfranchisement.

And here we agree and it is here that we need to focus.

We need to get beyond dogmatic adherence to economic ideologies. Neither socialism nor capitalism or any other economic ideology are sacrosanct. If lazes faire capitalism produced the greatest good for the greatest number of people then I would be a supporter. If Marxism worked as he hoped then I would be a proud Marxist. There is no utopia and we should stop selling people on the idea that there is. What we have is economic theory and reality and never the twain shall meet.

I have no aliegence to anything but freedom, Democracy and human dignity (I could be persuaded on a few others ).

 

[ErkDemon]

Economically I think a hybrid capitalist/socialist system works best. The question becomes then as to the ratio. I'm open.

I think people tend to veer more towards libertarianism (typically capitalism) during the good times, and more towards increased socialism during the bad (or when they're more worried about the future).

Faced with a boom, people say: Hey! There's heaps of good stuff to be had! How do I grab myself a load of that?

Faced with an economic slump, people start to be more concerned with having a government safety-net protecting them, and start demanding more government intervention.

 

[IchabodPlain]

I think people tend to veer more towards libertarianism (typically capitalism) during the good times, and more towards increased socialism during the bad (or when they're more worried about the future).

Faced with a boom, people say: Hey! There's heaps of good stuff to be had! How do I grab myself a load of that?

Faced with an economic slump, people start to be more concerned with having a government safety-net protecting them, and start demanding more government intervention.

How does Ronald Reagan fit in to this?

I do believe he took over after the energy crisis and overall economic slump that went on in the 70's, and countered it with deregulation in the 80's.