Are the Chinese Especially Puritanical?

[Foolmewunz]

im joking when we talk about Bejing or Shanghai, but not so much when we talk about Zhaoxing.

You realize that Zhaoxing is intentionally that way, right?

Is Vissoie indicative of all of Switzerland?

 

[Matt the Poet]

Matt, I don't think Puppycow really thinks that the Chinese are really 16th Century English Protestant Conservative Puritans (with the upper case P). It's also a euphemism for prudish or "up tight, sexually".

And I certainly didn’t mean to imply this, only that the word itself throws echoes of that background into the debate. You’ve shown this yourself by claiming the idiom ‘uptight’ as part of the ‘general’ meaning of the word – that in itself still contains the image of ‘constricting’ sexual behaviour that might otherwise ‘escape’ - which is embedded in a highly culturally specific view of the relationship between the self and the body.

My point being that neutral terms are best for a critical, sceptical approach to this sort of discussion – the Chinese government are, for some reason, preventing the portion of their population that has access to the internet from using it to view sexual images. That’s all we know to start with, to say anything else you need data on what Chinese people themselves are saying and doing about it, preferably in Chinese.

 

[MRC_Hans]

*snip*
The people said, quite resoundingly, that they would not accept this.

And the gov't did back down. They changed their policy, and now say that all computers must be sold with a CD that has the software in question, but it is up to the individual user whether or not they want to install it (the vast majority will not).

The interesting thing is that the Chinese government as gone down a one-way road with industrialization. By now the Chinese middle-class, that is people with some education, a reasonable income (by Chinese standards), access or the potential to access the internet, an at least rudimentary command of foreign language (usually English) is fast approaching 500 million. As long as the government provides future opportunities for these people, the vast majority are busy, and content with, building their own future and that of their single child. But they know what is going on, and if the powers that be should attempt to seriously pull the rug under them, mayhem will ensue.

The Chinese culture is very patriarchal, and the government is seen as the pater of country. As long as it is perceived to conduct good husbandry, most of the people will remain loyal, even if that husbandry involves some curbing of human rights, but......

Hans

 

[DC]

(on China being a modern industrial nation)

When were you last in China? Perhaps you are stil nursing the old images of thousands of bikes and parading kindergarten kids with wooden rifles and Mao unifirms? Perhaps the picture below of Beijing by night will change your perspective (It's a few years old, actually, and the murky area to the right is now filed with brand new high-rise buildings).

Hans

the last time i was in China was in 2001.
as i said, the big citys and tourist areas are modern. But leave the citys and its over with modernism. Even if you leave the tourist parts of Bejing you see not much modernism.

 

[DC]

You realize that Zhaoxing is intentionally that way, right?

Is Vissoie indicative of all of Switzerland?

many villages outside the huge metropoles are not modern at all.

 

[DC]

(on China being a modern industrial nation)

When were you last in China? Perhaps you are stil nursing the old images of thousands of bikes and parading kindergarten kids with wooden rifles and Mao unifirms? Perhaps the picture below of Beijing by night will change your perspective (It's a few years old, actually, and the murky area to the right is now filed with brand new high-rise buildings).

Hans

btw a picture from Shanghai by night, the new skyscrapers would be far more impressive.

btw i have to add that i liked the in my oppinion unmodern parts of China far more than the modern tourist centers.

 

[Wolfman]

I live in Beijing (or did until recently, and plan to return as soon as I can), which is an undeniably modern city.

I also spend time living in Lugu Lake, high in the Himalayas, working in villages that haven't even got electricity or running water, who live like they did a hundred years ago. Undeniably not modern.

Is China modern? Yes.
Is China backward/undeveloped? Yes.
Is China a first world country? Yes.
Is China a third world country? Yes.

That's the thing about China...it depends where you look, and what you use to draw your conclusions. In my opinion, anyone who uses any of the terms above to describe China as a whole only demonstrates how poorly they understand China.

 

[DC]

I live in Beijing (or did until recently, and plan to return as soon as I can), which is an undeniably modern city.

I also spend time living in Lugu Lake, high in the Himalayas, working in villages that haven't even got electricity or running water, who live like they did a hundred years ago. Undeniably not modern.

Is China modern? Yes.
Is China backward/undeveloped? Yes.
Is China a first world country? Yes.
Is China a third world country? Yes.

That's the thing about China...it depends where you look, and what you use to draw your conclusions. In my opinion, anyone who uses any of the terms above to describe China as a whole only demonstrates how poorly they understand China.

I like how the Chinese combine modern with traditional. especially in architecture.

I have seen the Bejing the tourist guide showed me
but i also saw the Bejing i doscovered on my own.

 

[MRC_Hans]

I like how the Chinese combine modern with traditional. especially in architecture.

I have seen the Bejing the tourist guide showed me

but i also saw the Bejing i doscovered on my own.

Taken from the bell tower, right?

The Hutongs are also tourist stuff, otherwise they would have levelled them long ago.

However, you seem to grasp the main point: It makes absolutely no sense to say: "China is.. "-

China is larger and more diverse than Europe.

Hans

 

[Nosi]

The Chinese use puns to slide pass censorship. An example of this is the "Song of the Grass-Mud Horse". Examples of it are on YouTube. Google will dig up it's meaning.

I'd provide a link, but the meaning is just filthy and would violate rule 10 six ways from Sunday and would likely get me banned. It is so not safe for work...so I'll let you go Googling when you are in the free and clear.

 

[Vic Vega]

(on China being a modern industrial nation)

When were you last in China? Perhaps you are stil nursing the old images of thousands of bikes and parading kindergarten kids with wooden rifles and Mao unifirms? Perhaps the picture below of Beijing by night will change your perspective (It's a few years old, actually, and the murky area to the right is now filed with brand new high-rise buildings).

Hans

Or perhaps he was just joking.

 

[gtc]

Not all of Beijing seems to be as modern as is claimed.

Here is an article from Vice Magazine, some swearing, about an underground city under Beijing. Obviously it is abandoned and dilapidated but some of the pictures of the above ground Beijing and the inhabited parts of the underground area don't look too modern.

 

[Verde]

The Chinese culture is very patriarchal, and the government is seen as the pater of country. As long as it is perceived to conduct good husbandry, most of the people will remain loyal, even if that husbandry involves some curbing of human rights, but......

True, but I don't think that is unique to China.

All the places I have lived in could fit that description, including my current home, the US.

V.

 

[Wolfman]

Not all of Beijing seems to be as modern as is claimed.

Here is an article from Vice Magazine, some swearing, about an underground city under Beijing. Obviously it is abandoned and dilapidated but some of the pictures of the above ground Beijing and the inhabited parts of the underground area don't look too modern.

Ummmm...

...first of all, I don't think that anyone is claiming that 100% of all buildings and residences in Beijing are 'modern' or developed. Hell, I could go to any city in the world, regardless of how 'modern' or developed it was, and find similar examples. Big cities attract people. Inevitably, some of those people fall through the cracks. Slums develop. And those who can't even afford to live in the slums will appropriate whatever living space they can.

There are stories in cities like New York about homeless people living in caves in parks, or in sewer systems.

In regards to the above-ground area, anyone with even a fleeting knowledge of Beijing knows there's nothing 'hidden' or 'secret' about this. The hutongs (where the pictures are taken) not only are a popular part of any tour to China, but are also the center of a great deal of controversy. A lot of the buildings in those hutongs -- as dilapidated and outdated as they may be -- are hundreds of years old (some of them pre-date the founding of the United States). There is a distinctive style of building, the "si he yuan", or four-sided courtyard, that is considered a part of Beijing's cultural heritage.

In its quest for modernization, and to create more living space (typically, 5-20 people will live in a si he yuan...whereas an apartment building on the same space could house hundreds of people), the Beijing gov't has been systematically bulldozing these areas, and rebuilding them. Which inspires screams about the destruction of historic communities with deep cultural heritage and significance.

Thus, they're kinda' screwed whatever they do. If they leave them there -- then someone posts pictures and says, "See? They're really not all that advanced, look at what they're hiding from you!" And if they act to rebuild them, then someone posts pictures and says, "See? That greedy government doesn't care about its own cultural heritage, they just destroy everything in the name of progress."

BTW -- That 'underground city' is far from 'unknown', as the author claims. Sounds to me like he's just fallen for a nice-sounding bit of local folklore. The newspapers in fact have regular stories about migrant workers and beggars being 'ousted' from such areas, as part of the "rebuilding and purification" campaigns that are carried out regularly.

 

[Nosi]

Whoops...duplicate

 

[Darth Rotor]

Yes, the old guard - e.g. the ones running the country and thus of the older generation - are rather puritanical. But their approach is sort of medieval; husband = provider and he's just bound to be human and have foibles and need some releases for his energy, after all, wink wink nudge nudge.

The tradition of the syau tai tai (literally "little wife" - e.g. "mistress") is still very real in moneyed circles in China. But the understanding is that daddy's supposed to still be a good provider to the family and go home to them, and that for all things public, his actual wife and children are his family, regardless how long he's been with the syau tai tai (or that he's bought her a condo and/or pays her more than he pays his lawyer).

In short, the Chinese are very French . How very urbane.

But the sexuality issue has nothing to do with this, really. The public face is the porn filtering. The less public face is their ongoing battle to stem the free flow of information. It's a losing battle, but they will continue because it's in their nature to try to protect what they have - their positions.

The manipulation of the CCTV report is interesting. Not just that they're manipulating the story but that there are sufficient bloggers out there who caught them at it and are spreading the story. This is why I say it's a losing battle. As they've learned in Thailand - you can't shut it down completely. News and opinion will get out. They're trying to hold back history. Unless they get out there and take away computers by gunpoint and launch into a massive repressive campaign, they cannot do it. They may keep it up for a while, but it's a holding action.