Are people who died in Vietnam "Draft Dodgers"

[jj]

In another thread, http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=45800 , about halfway down the first page, someone suggests, apparently seriously, that Kerry was a draft dodger using the logic that "Kerry fits into the draft dodger category as well. He didn't serve a full term in country."

By this logic, anyone who died in the war didn't complete their term "in country", with perhaps some few odd exceptions. Some other few had several rotations over there, so they might also be excepted. Many, if not most, of the people who died in 'nam died on their first rotation, and would be precisely covered by exactly the same logic exhibited in the quote, taken in context and without obfuscation or intent to decieve, above.

Do you think that's a fair thing to say?

(edited for typokinesis)

 

[rikzilla]

Do you think that's a fair thing to say?

No,

But after your above post it is fair to say that you're an idiot.
There is evidence you see....

-z

 

[CFLarsen]

Re: Re: Are people who died in Vietnam "Draft Dodgers"

No,

But after your above post it is fair to say that you're an idiot.
There is evidence you see....

-z

May I see it?

 

[jj]

Re: Re: Are people who died in Vietnam "Draft Dodgers"

No,

But after your above post it is fair to say that you're an idiot.
There is evidence you see....

-z

So, then, you argue that any serviceman who was wounded and sent home, for whom someone who did not serve with him has uttered a non-testable claim of malfeasance, is a draft dodger?

Shall we start a poll on that one?

 

[jj]

It's interesting. Even the swiftie apologists won't stand up for this one, and go for the dishonest, unethical, and obviously bullying ad-hominem "drop dead, jj" instead of voting for the argument of one of their own.

That shows quite a few things, really ...

 

[Upchurch]

It's interesting. Even the swiftie apologists won't stand up for this one, and go for the dishonest, unethical, and obviously bullying ad-hominem "drop dead, jj" instead of voting for the argument of one of their own.

Ooooh. We were supposed to vote for "drop dead, jj" in relation to the swiftie ad. oops.

 

[aerocontrols]

It's interesting. Even the swiftie apologists won't stand up for this one, and go for the dishonest, unethical, and obviously bullying ad-hominem "drop dead, jj" instead of voting for the argument of one of their own.

That shows quite a few things, really ...

lol

 

[merphie]

In another thread, http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=45800 , about halfway down the first page, someone suggests, apparently seriously, that Kerry was a draft dodger using the logic that "Kerry fits into the draft dodger category as well. He didn't serve a full term in country."

By this logic, anyone who died in the war didn't complete their term "in country", with perhaps some few odd exceptions. Some other few had several rotations over there, so they might also be excepted. Many, if not most, of the people who died in 'nam died on their first rotation, and would be precisely covered by exactly the same logic exhibited in the quote, taken in context and without obfuscation or intent to decieve, above.

Do you think that's a fair thing to say?

That is completely ignorant to think I even meant it in that way.

 

[jj]

Re: Re: Are people who died in Vietnam "Draft Dodgers"

That is completely ignorant to think I even meant it in that way.

It's exactly what you said. You just didn't realize the true extent of what your sound bite implied.

 

[merphie]

Re: Re: Re: Are people who died in Vietnam "Draft Dodgers"

It's exactly what you said. You just didn't realize the true extent of what your sound bite implied.

I guess that depends on who's reading it. There are two different sentences in that post which you quoted out of context. I was trying to get an idea across and you are assuming something totally off the wall.

Perhaps they would have made better sense if I made a new paragraph for the second sentence. I certainly didn't use "BECAUSE" instead of a period as you seem to suggest.

I know a lot of people didn't understand what I was trying to say. I promptly cleared up what I meant.

This is nothing but your use of a smear tactic.

 

[jj]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Are people who died in Vietnam "Draft Dodgers"

There are two different sentences in that post which you quoted out of context.

I did nothing of the sort.

You said what you said. Maybe you didn't mean what you said, but you said it, and I don't read minds, only the text you write.

You said it. If you didn't mean it, start a thread and apologize to all the parents and siblings of people who didn't come home from 'nam.

 

[CFLarsen]

I guess that depends on who's reading it. There are two different sentences in that post which you quoted out of context. I was trying to get an idea across and you are assuming something totally off the wall.

Perhaps they would have made better sense if I made a new paragraph for the second sentence. I certainly didn't use "BECAUSE" instead of a period as you seem to suggest.

I know a lot of people didn't understand what I was trying to say. I promptly cleared up what I meant.

This is nothing but your use of a smear tactic.

Here are your two sentences:

Kerry fits into the draft dodger category as well. He didn't serve a full term in country.

I don't see that there is any other way to read that, than those who didn't serve a full term in country fits into the draft dodger category.

Ergo, those who got wounded and was shipped home are draft dodgers.

Ergo, those who died in battle are draft dodgers.

 

[UserGoogol]

If you wanna get literal, he dodged the draft because he enlisted, thusly preventing himself from being eligable for the draft. Thusly all people who enlisted to fight in the Vietnam War dodged the draft.

 

[CFLarsen]

If you wanna get literal, he dodged the draft because he enlisted, thusly preventing himself from being eligable for the draft. Thusly all people who enlisted to fight in the Vietnam War dodged the draft.

Not just literal. Logically, you are correct as well.

 

[merphie]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Are people who died in Vietnam "Draft Dodgers"

I did nothing of the sort.

You said what you said. Maybe you didn't mean what you said, but you said it, and I don't read minds, only the text you write.

You said it. If you didn't mean it, start a thread and apologize to all the parents and siblings of people who didn't come home from 'nam.

It's all in your mindset and the spin you want to put into it. I don't need to apologize to anyone because you gave the extra meaning.

 

[merphie]

I don't see that there is any other way to read that, than those who didn't serve a full term in country fits into the draft dodger category.

Ergo, those who got wounded and was shipped home are draft dodgers.

Ergo, those who died in battle are draft dodgers.

Once again, the draft dodger whines about the person who got the silver star. There might be a more lame way to behave, but it's hard to believe.

The war powers act is a joke. Kerry fits into the draft dodger category as well. He didn't serve a full term in country.

It was quoted out of context. I was responding to what is in bold type above.

Meaning Kerry used his clout to change his service. The logic is that draft dodgers whine about who got the silver star. Then Kerry must be a close kin to draft dodgers because how he got the medals is questioned and he didn't serve a full term in country like to poor grunts did.

What I was trying to say may not have been clear but that doesn't mean you jump in the deep end on some wild tangent. You can always ask for clarification of what I was talking about. Which people did ask and I clarified my point.

To go on one out of context sentence and start a new thread proclaiming your meaning is nothing more than a smear tactic. It's a personal attack on me.

I have yet to see JJ actually make an argument with any facts to back it up. I have not seen him on the other thread trying to make a good argument for his side. I believe that is because he can not do so. Therefore he resorts to personal attacks on people who do not share his opinion.

 

[jj]

It was quoted out of context. I was responding to what is in bold type above.


The two quotes are in different articles. You're off the deep end now.


I have yet to see JJ actually make an argument with any facts to back it up.

Now that you're caught cold, you dishonestly attack your ethical better, who caught you.


You are now shown to be ethically bankrupt, and a bully.


That's really weak, trying to back out of what you said by combining two different articles, and then lying about the person who caught you when the nature of your argument becomes clear. You thought you had a good sound bite, but you didn't think it through, now you're backed into a corner. You could have just said "oh dear, I shouldn't have said that", but you had to try to backpedal to the swifties lies about Kerry. Come on, Merphie, that's something that started out as a Colson enterprise that's been funded by irresponsible soft money ever since.

Certainly, some people are annoyed that Kerry came back and told the truth about the war in 'Nam, and this is how they show it, by lying about somebody who earned a silver star.

You, suggesting, after the fact, that getting a silver star makes somebody a draft dodger (that being one of the implications of your absurd original position), is simply absurd and obscene. It's partisan behavior at its worst, running down the hero in favor of the draft dodger.

 

[CFLarsen]

merphie,

Can you really blame anyone else but yourself, if your posts are not percieved the way you intended them to be?

I mean...you flip-flop worse than Kerry has ever been accused of...

Can I suggest that you think hard about what you actually mean, and how you are going to present it in the future?

 

[merphie]

Now that you're caught cold, you dishonestly attack your ethical better, who caught you.

You are now shown to be ethically bankrupt, and a bully.

That's really weak, trying to back out of what you said by combining two different articles, and then lying about the person who caught you when the nature of your argument becomes clear. You thought you had a good sound bite, but you didn't think it through, now you're backed into a corner. You could have just said "oh dear, I shouldn't have said that", but you had to try to backpedal to the swifties lies about Kerry. Come on, Merphie, that's something that started out as a Colson enterprise that's been funded by irresponsible soft money ever since.

Certainly, some people are annoyed that Kerry came back and told the truth about the war in 'Nam, and this is how they show it, by lying about somebody who earned a silver star.

You, suggesting, after the fact, that getting a silver star makes somebody a draft dodger (that being one of the implications of your absurd original position), is simply absurd and obscene. It's partisan behavior at its worst, running down the hero in favor of the draft dodger.

No the simple fact is I made a statement that apparently was not clear. I cleared up what I was thinking and posted sources. I have shown my side of the argument and the claims I made were not unethical or far fetched. Many things about Kerry's claims are questionable.

I never mentioned the Swifties. You have still yet to prove any of your claims. You state the swifties are wrong? How do you know this? Divine intervention?

You have posted no argument except personal attacks. You have not defended you position. Yet here again you change the meaning of my words. Now it's he's a draft dodger because he earned a silver star.

All you can do is sit there pretending to be ethical while shouting liar. You still have not provided any sources to back up your claim.

I will not be a party to you Ad Hominem until you start provided sources and facts to back up your endless drivel.

 

[merphie]

merphie,

Can you really blame anyone else but yourself, if your posts are not percieved the way you intended them to be?

I mean...you flip-flop worse than Kerry has ever been accused of...

Can I suggest that you think hard about what you actually mean, and how you are going to present it in the future?

No I can't blame anyone for not precieving my statements as I intended. I have not done so. What I can do is blame those who go off on personal attacks without asking for clarification.

I have not flip flopped on anything and could never come close to Kerry's record. I have provided plenty of sources along with other people. You and JJ have not answered any of them.

My I suggest you actually present a debate with facts instead of personal attacks and accusations?