Are newborn babies atheist?

[Charlie Brown]

Feel free to invent a new word if you like.

.- YOU are inventing new arbitrary definitions.

I'm using the correct, accepted and most etymologically close definition of the word.

We already have one that fits the job. Not a theist? Then you are atheist.

.- So ignorant, indifferent and agnostic people does not exists. They are my inventions... ...Yes...

 

[Charlie Brown]

I don't concern myself with what words can be used for in the hands of idiots.

.- Not words, you are using an incorrect DEFINITION of a perfectly defined word.

 

[Charlie Brown]

"People can arrive at that lack of theism for any number of reasons including never having even thought about it."


.- Again, you are equating Atheism with absolute ignorance.
.

Atheism is a broad not-a-church, being atheist implies nothing else about an individual than simply not believing in God


.- So "not believing in gods" means or can be equaled to "not having the slightest idea of what anything is" like in a baby?


Simple as that:

In the very unlikely, almost fantastic event you could find a guy who does know nothing or never heard about gods, never was exposed to any religion or theism and never a supernatural explanation passed his mind, and you ask him if he believes in god.

What do you think it would be his answer?

1) Yes
2) No
3) What the ◊◊◊◊ is a god? What do you talking about? And what is an atheist?

What do you think an Atheist would answer?

 

[Checkmite]

This discussion is silly, one of the silliest I've seen in R&P. Of course newborn babies are "atheist"; they're completely unaware of the existence of the "God question", let alone able to believe one exists.

I'm a bit more interested in the point behind the question. What difference does it make if newborn babies are or are not atheists?

 

[Charlie Brown]

.- Saying or even suggesting a person who never knew about gods is gonna answer NO or is not "gonna believe in gods" is simply putting YOUR answer in his mouth.

Totally arbitrary and with zero logical basement.

 

[Charlie Brown]

[I] "Of course newborn babies are "atheist"; they're completely unaware of the existence of the "God question"[/I]


.- So you are suggesting the person who does not know nothing about ANYTHING (forget gods) is gonna answer "NO" (the "usual" atheist response)? He will not ask what that SOMETHING is before his answer? He is simply gonna answer "NO" to something he does not have any idea about? You are not describing an Atheist, you are describing an absolute IDIOT.

Saying or even suggesting a person who never knew a bit about ANYTHING (again, forget god) is gonna answer "NO" (which is THE atheist answer) or is not "gonna believe in that SOMETHING" is simply putting YOUR answer in his mouth.

Totally arbitrary and with zero logical basement.

You need something first in order to believe or disbelieve to.

If not, you are also inventing a new arbitrary definition/meaning to the word "BELIEVE" and "DISBELIEVE":


be·lieve
[bih-leev] Show IPA verb, be·lieved, be·liev·ing.
verb (used without object)
1.
to have confidence in the truth, the existence, or the reliability of something, although without absolute proof that one is right in doing so: Only if one believes in something can one act purposefully.
verb (used with object)
2.
to have confidence or faith in the truth of (a positive assertion, story, etc.); give credence to.
3.
to have confidence in the assertions of (a person).
4.
to have a conviction that (a person or thing) is, has been, or will be engaged in a given action or involved in a given situation: The fugitive is believed to be headed for the Mexican border.
5.
to suppose or assume; understand (usually followed by a noun clause): I believe that he has left town.





dis·be·lieve
[dis-bi-leev] Show IPA verb, dis·be·lieved, dis·be·liev·ing.
verb (used with object)
1.
to have no belief in; refuse or reject belief in: to disbelieve reports of UFO sightings.
verb (used without object)
2.
to refuse or reject belief; have no belief.

 

[Charlie Brown]

.- Assuming that a newborn baby is gonna answer ANYTHING at all is pretty silly.

And

Assuming that a person with zero knowledge about something is gonna automatically answer "NO" is also pretty silly and arrogant.

 

[The Norseman]

@ Charlie Brown

Two things: one, as I said earlier, your argumentum ad dictionary is tedious. You seem not to care. That's fine. There are people who obviously disagree with the straight dictionary definition of the term 'atheist' yet their definition still fits perfectly with the word.

I don't care what the all the myriad dictionaries say because they have been written with theism as the default point of view. 'Atheism' simply means 'a-' (without) 'theism' (belief in a god or gods). Without a belief in a god or gods.

That's really it.

Point number two: I asked you to learn how to quote properly. There are tutorials and/or people are more than willing to show you how if you simply ask.

It's been difficult for me to understand what your point is and perhaps formatting is one of the reasons it's been difficult.

Perhaps you can say your point in one sentence so that myself and others are more clear on what position you are trying to advocate?

 

[Charlie Brown]

.- Assuming that a newborn baby is gonna answer ANYTHING at all is pretty silly.

And

Assuming that a person with zero knowledge about something is gonna automatically answer "NO" (unless is a complete idiot) is also pretty silly and arrogant.Among other terms I don't want to use for decency sake.

And, I don't know about you but, I don't like at all the idea of Atheism linked with "Newborn Babies" "Absolute ignorance" "Zero Knowledge" "Complete Idiocy" and the likes, even if it was technically correct (which is not)

Carry on with your ludicrous quest.
Theists all over the world will be very grateful.

 

[Charlie Brown]

Two things: one, as I said earlier, your argumentum ad dictionary is tedious.

,- And as I said earlier CORRECT. You can't simply give the meaning you want to a word.



Atheism' simply means 'a-' (without) 'theism' (belief in a god or gods). Without a belief in a god or gods.

.- And where this "definition" came from?




I don't care what the all the myriad dictionaries say because they have been written with theism as the default point of view.


.- Sorry, but this is the silliest thing I've heard in this thread. Dictionaries don't have any position, they just define term/words and set standards to facilitate communications and the interchange of Ideas between humans. They are absolutely NEUTRAL You won't find ANY reputable dictionary that suggest Theism as being the default position of anything. They don't take sides.

And REPUTABLE LANGUAGE Dictionaries are not written or compiled by Theists, Churches or any religious organization. And neither Atheists.

Saying that you (or others) don't care abut what a Dictionary says simply means you want to give a word the meaning you like at your discretion and convenience.

Since, in your opinion, there is no language parameters or they shouldn't be, I can also come up with any definition I want and is gonna be as valid as whatever you say.

What about it?

Lets play "who invent/change more definitions"

 

[John Jones]

Charlie Brown,

Will you please learn to quote properly. You don't appear to even be consistent.

Thank you.

 

[The Norseman]

And as I said earlier CORRECT. You can't simply give the meaning you want to a word.

Good thing no one is doing that here.

Atheism' simply means 'a-' (without) 'theism' (belief in a god or gods). Without a belief in a god or gods.

And where this "definition" came from?

Umm... are you serious? It comes from the Greek. The root words of 'theist' and the prefix 'a-'. This is the most etymologically consistent use of the word 'atheist'. Without theism.

I don't care what the all the myriad dictionaries say because they have been written with theism as the default point of view.

Sorry, but this is the silliest thing I've heard in this thread. Dictionaries don't have any position, they just define term/words and set standards to facilitate communications and the interchange of Ideas between humans. They are absolutely NEUTRAL You won't find ANY reputable dictionary that suggest Theism as being the default position of anything. They don't take sides.

And REPUTABLE LANGUAGE Dictionaries are not written or compiled by Theists, Churches or any religious organization. And neither Atheists.

They have been written from a mainly Christian point of view. It's obvious as your definitions have shown. "A disbelief or denial of the existence of a God" is not a neutral point of view, is it? It's a presupposition that a god actually exists to disbelieve or deny, rather than a neutral "without belief in a god or gods."

Saying that you (or others) don't care abut what a Dictionary says simply means you want to give a word the meaning you like at your discretion and convenience.

No, I mean specifically that their definitions give a biased slant to a simple word. The prefix 'a-' and the Greek root 'theos' isn't difficult. It means, 'without a belief in a god or gods'.

Since, in your opinion, there is no language parameters or they shouldn't be, I can also come up with any definition I want and is gonna be as valid as whatever you say.

What about it?

Lets play "who invent/change more definitions"

I'm not making things up, so this point is irrelevant.

What I think is relevant is that you still have not yet pointed out what logical fallacies the woman made in the video that was linked to for which I've already asked you.

Also, I'm wondering if you'll get around to giving a one-sentence summary of what point you are trying to make in this thread, for which I've already asked as well.

 

[Last of the Fraggles]

I don't concern myself with what words can be used for in the hands of idiots.

.- Not words, you are using an incorrect DEFINITION of a perfectly defined word.

No, I'm using the meaning of the word to mean what it means. It's a simple choice. Theist or Not. There's no in-between.

Feel free to invent a new word if you like.

.- YOU are inventing new arbitrary definitions.

I'm using the correct, accepted and most etymologically close definition of the word.

We already have one that fits the job. Not a theist? Then you are atheist.

.- So ignorant, indifferent and agnostic people does not exists. They are my inventions... ...Yes...

Ignorant, indifferent and agnostic people all exist. If they are not theists then they are all atheists. Just like tall people, short people, vegans and boy band members can all be atheists too.

Atheism doesn't require anything but not being theist. I don't know why you can't understand that.

"People can arrive at that lack of theism for any number of reasons including never having even thought about it."


.- Again, you are equating Atheism with absolute ignorance.
.

Atheism is a broad not-a-church, being atheist implies nothing else about an individual than simply not believing in God


.- So "not believing in gods" means or can be equaled to "not having the slightest idea of what anything is" like in a baby?

I'm not equating anything with anything. You've got it backwards. I'm merely telling you if you aren't a theist you are atheist. You can be an ignorant atheist, a well-educated atheist or a baby atheist.

Simple as that:

In the very unlikely, almost fantastic event you could find a guy who does know nothing or never heard about gods, never was exposed to any religion or theism and never a supernatural explanation passed his mind, and you ask him if he believes in god.

What do you think it would be his answer?

1) Yes
2) No
3) What the ◊◊◊◊ is a god? What do you talking about? And what is an atheist?

What do you think an Atheist would answer?

2 or 3. Or 1 if they were a liar atheist. They probably exist too.

Let's say an alien race land tomorrow and have no concept of God and hence worship no deity. You seriously telling me they wouldn't be regarded as a race of atheist aliens?

.- Saying or even suggesting a person who never knew about gods is gonna answer NO or is not "gonna believe in gods" is simply putting YOUR answer in his mouth.

Totally arbitrary and with zero logical basement.

Babies aren't going to answer you AT ALL. But given that they have never heard of God by definition they don't believe in it. They also don't believe in Santa or that Elvis is still alive. If anyone cared they'd be A-Santa-ist and A-Elvis-ist too.

Atheism doesn't relate to how you answer a question. It equates to whether you hold a belief.

 

[Last of the Fraggles]

Incidentally what bloody dictionaries are you using?

The Oxford dictionary definition on my first Google:

disbelief or lack of belief in the existence of God or gods.

Buy a new dictionary or a new internet. Yours seems to be broken.

 

[Kid Eager]

Which means the answer to the thread is "yes". At last.

It seems like a lot (or alot if you can't type properly) of the argument has been about the journey to atheism rather than the result. Atheism defines the state, not the journey.

 

[Charlie Brown]

Incidentally what bloody dictionaries are you using?

The Oxford dictionary definition on my first Google:



Buy a new dictionary or a new internet. Yours seems to be broken.

HE.HE.HE!! I knew it!!!. I KNEW this was gonna happen!!

You've just been fooled by a fake, P.O.S. site, which is using ILLEGALLY the "OXFORD" name, reputation, even the site is a copy, but has no affiliation nor any link to the REAL ONE. (Don't feel bad, I also fell for that.)



This is your site:
http://oxforddictionaries.com/


AND


THIS is the official, GENUINE, REAL OXFORD ENGLISH DICTIONARY:

http://www.oed.com/

Unfortunately It's a paid, subscription-only Dictionary (215 English pounds per year)

But don't worry, I have a screenshot of their Atheist definition I got from the University of Miami.


Can someone explain me how can I upload it? I'd really like to show it.

Anyway, here is a site with a very large compilation from several Dictionaries (including the genuine OXFORD Dictionary):

http://www.evilbible.com/Definition_of_Atheism_1.htm

It also have several arguments about this matter.

 

[The Norseman]

HE.HE.HE!! I knew it!!!. I KNEW this was gonna happen!!

You've just been fooled by a fake, P.O.S. site, which is using ILLEGALLY the "OXFORD" name, reputation, even the site is a copy, but has no affiliation nor any link to the REAL ONE. (Don't feel bad, I also fell for that.)



This is your site:
http://oxforddictionaries.com/


AND


THIS is the official, GENUINE, REAL OXFORD ENGLISH DICTIONARY:

http://www.oed.com/

Unfortunately It's a paid, subscription-only Dictionary (215 English pounds per year)

But don't worry, I have a screenshot of their Atheist definition I got from the University of Miami.


Can someone explain me how can I upload it? I'd really like to show it.

Anyway, here is a site with a very large compilation from several Dictionaries (including the genuine OXFORD Dictionary):

http://www.evilbible.com/Definition_of_Atheism_1.htm

It also have several arguments about this matter.

Oh, gimme a break.

From your last link: "It has come to my attention that some atheists on the internet are trying to redefine the words “atheism” and “atheist” to mean anyone who simply lacks a belief in gods."

Yeah, right, that's surely an unbiased webpage.

So, once more I ask why are you playing at dictionary wars and not addressing my questions?

 

[Charlie Brown]

No, I'm using the meaning of the word to mean what it means. It's a simple choice. Theist or Not. There's no in-between.

.- Wow, no more positions!! Not only you are changing definitions at your convenience, now you are using Logical fallacies as "arguments."

This is the one you are using:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_dilemma

So there is no other choice.

ANY ANSWER, with the exception of "YES", means you are Atheist.

"I don't know" " It's not possible to know" "I don't care" "Maybe" asking "What's a god", etc any other possible answer means you are atheist.

It reminds me of a very famous False dilemma Fallacy:

"You are either with me or against me"

 

[The Norseman]

Can someone explain me how can I upload it?

Go to the bottom of the page where the quick post box is and under it, click "Go Advanced".

The Advanced window appears and along the right-hand side, bottom, it says "My Images". Click on either "Pick" or "Quick Upload" and you can navigate to where the picture is located that you wish to post on the forum.

 

[Kid Eager]

I have no trouble whatsoever with the definition as broadly accepted, but do object to some random on the Internet seeking to constrain the definition to support a position they want to take.

Atheism is what it is. Move on.