Are Electric Cars A Pointless Effort?

[ImaginalDisc]

My thoughts for electrical transport . . .

An electrified network of “main” routes that directly power vehicles for long distance travel. The vehicles have on-board batteries that allow for shorter travel independent of the network. The batteries are recharged when travelling on the network. This system could also be utilised to distribute electricity around cities and countries (better than ugly power poles and pylons).

What would the main flaws of such a system be?

Transmission inefficiencies in distributing power that broadly, especially on long interstate highways. Transmitting power is quite efficient, but the efficiency drops off with very long distances and the only compensation is to use absurdly high voltage, but that would in turn require cars to carry their own transformers and leads to the next problem.

Safety for pedestrians, tourists, animals, and stranded motorists, not to mention the havoc an exploding transformer might play inside a car moving at a high rate of speed. The technological hurdle of transmitting power to a vast number of cars which can change lanes and behave in ways no electric street car could. I don't even want to think about what might happen if the road gets covered in a few inches of intense rain.

Cost.

 

[rjh01]

One advantage of electric cars is that they can be recharged overnight in your garage using off peak electricity. Some people use off peak power for their hot water system. It would be easy for them to add a plug from this to their garage to recharge their car every night.

There would be several problems with having an electrified network of roads. One problem is that it would interesting to see how the utility company could charge their customers for the electricity they use.

 

[Mashuna]

My thoughts for electrical transport . . .

An electrified network of “main” routes that directly power vehicles for long distance travel. The vehicles have on-board batteries that allow for shorter travel independent of the network. The batteries are recharged when travelling on the network. This system could also be utilised to distribute electricity around cities and countries (better than ugly power poles and pylons).

What would the main flaws of such a system be?

You've electrified the roads?

Shocking.

 

[ynot]

Transmission inefficiencies in distributing power that broadly, especially on long interstate highways. Transmitting power is quite efficient, but the efficiency drops off with very long distances and the only compensation is to use absurdly high voltage, but that would in turn require cars to carry their own transformers and leads to the next problem.

Safety for pedestrians, tourists, animals, and stranded motorists, not to mention the havoc an exploding transformer might play inside a car moving at a high rate of speed. The technological hurdle of transmitting power to a vast number of cars which can change lanes and behave in ways no electric street car could. I don't even want to think about what might happen if the road gets covered in a few inches of intense rain.

Cost.

Power is already distributed broadly. I’m not suggesting that vehicles would tap in to the full power of high voltage long distance power transmission but perhaps they could tap in to part of it somehow. I’m not an electrical engineer so maybe I’m talking crap, but perhaps they could somehow tap in to the induced currents created by high voltage power transmission? Or the system could be made up of a series of short distance lower voltage segments. I’m not thinking of a system that uses standard roads, but a specifically designed independent system. When the vehicles leave the system they can use conventional roads. Vehicles could be “piggy-backed” along the system on “electric trucks“. This would allow internal combustion vehicles to use the system also. A bit like transporting vehicles on efficient high speed electrical trains for long journeys and driving off to use conventional roads at the destination. More of a brainstorm than a serious concept.

ETA - I’ve just been trying to think of a solution to the “tyranny of distance” problem with electric vehicles.

 

[ynot]

You've electrified the roads?

Shocking.

Long distance electrified train routes already exist - not so shocking?

 

[ynot]

One advantage of electric cars is that they can be recharged overnight in your garage using off peak electricity. Some people use off peak power for their hot water system. It would be easy for them to add a plug from this to their garage to recharge their car every night.

There would be several problems with having an electrified network of roads. One problem is that it would interesting to see how the utility company could charge their customers for the electricity they use.

The power system for my house has been recently upgraded to an automatic usage transmission system. No need for a metre reader to call as the usage is transmitted to the supply company automatically. I don’t think the electricity companies would have any more problem charging than the petrol companies do.

 

[rjh01]

And they can be paid for in the same way as tollways. I do not think it would be too hard to have one lane each way of a highway have a c440V line run above it. The power can be taped in the same way as what a train does. Anyone who uses that lane gets charged a fee.

For a bit extra you can have car to car communication. The lead car puts on their brakes and that puts the brakes on the car following. Then tail gating can happen safely.

 

[Earthborn]

The technological hurdle of transmitting power to a vast number of cars which can change lanes and behave in ways no electric street car could.

Bumpercars have an even greater freedom of movement than ordinary cars, and there is little trouble delivering electricity to them.

 

[Daylight]

Just a thought. Since we drive to work and then park outside. For most people wouldn't adding solar cells to the hood and roof to charge the battery while parked reduce the amount of time needed to charge at night? And make the electric car even cheaper as a work car?

 

[rjh01]

If the roof was the solar cells, so the extra weight of the cells would be almost nothing. They could be in use while the car was driving, so you get zero consumption on a good day when the car is not moving very fast. This would increase the range of the car.

 

[drkitten]

Bumpercars have an even greater freedom of movement than ordinary cars, and there is little trouble delivering electricity to them.

Bumper cars also drive indoors, underneath an electrically conductive roof.

Are you seriously proposing placing a roof over the entire Interstate system?

 

[Ladewig]

Bumper cars also drive indoors, underneath an electrically conductive roof.

Are you seriously proposing placing a roof over the entire Interstate system?

I suspect that Earthborn was making a little joke.

. . . . . . . . . .

As for the OP, burning coal to generate electricity to use in cars does still generate greenhouse gases, but in cities with smog problems, the ability to push the actual combustion away from the city does add to the quality of life for the city's residents

 

[Earthborn]

Bumper cars also drive indoors, underneath an electrically conductive roof.

Are you seriously proposing placing a roof over the entire Interstate system?

No, just the electric nets. I don't see why that should be more problematic than already existing overhead lines for trains and trams, which also don't need an electrically conductive roof above them.

I suspect that Earthborn was making a little joke.

Could be.

I'm certainly not claiming that such an electrified road system would be more practical than the existing roads, but I don't think there is any technical reason why such a thing would be impossible.

 

[quarky]

If the roof was the solar cells, so the extra weight of the cells would be almost nothing. They could be in use while the car was driving, so you get zero consumption on a good day when the car is not moving very fast. This would increase the range of the car.

not a bad concept, but the pv contribution would be negligible...certainly not enough to move a modern car; even on a bright sunny day.

A larger part of the solution, imho, is to make the shift to hyper cars and more efficient lifestyles. In HPV contests, human powered vehicles have managed 81.4 mph (without hills or wind)...and this is accomplished with less than one horsepower. A 20 lb bike can handle a 200 lb person. The equation for a typical car is nearly the inverse of that.

 

[Earthborn]

not a bad concept, but the pv contribution would be negligible...certainly not enough to move a modern car; even on a bright sunny day.

Not enough on their own, but still helps a bit. Like 20% or so.

 

[ddt]

No, just the electric nets. I don't see why that should be more problematic than already existing overhead lines for trains and trams, which also don't need an electrically conductive roof above them.

I'm certainly not claiming that such an electrified road system would be more practical than the existing roads, but I don't think there is any technical reason why such a thing would be impossible.

The technology already exists; think of trolley buses. They can change lanes pretty easily too. And produce absolutely no noise.

You could envisage a combination of such an electric net for the main road system (like motorways and freeways in cities), and battery use for the rest. It would make a lot of the anti-sound walls along the motorways superfluous, I'd guess.

 

[Earthborn]

The technology already exists; think of trolley buses.

Trolley buses are fixed to a set of wires and while they can change lanes, one cannot pass another unless they have seperate wires. Using an electrified net over the road like the ones used for bumpercars gives each vehicle the maximum freedom of movement on the road.

Trolley buses use two wires, one live and one ground while trams and trains use the rails as ground. For an electrified motorway the road needs to be fully partially metal to provide a grounded connection. Other advantages: motorways might have a higher voltage than electric nets in cities, which means instant and automatic speed control. Red traffic light? One section is switched off, automatic flow control.

None of this seems technically complex to me, though it may be terribly expensive and probably needs to be paid for through taxation. I've heard other concepts such as linear motors in the road or powering cars through induction, so using wires is certainly not the most farfetched idea out there. And it is delightfully retro-futuristic.

 

[robinson]

If the roof was the solar cells, so the extra weight of the cells would be almost nothing. They could be in use while the car was driving, so you get zero consumption on a good day when the car is not moving very fast. This would increase the range of the car.

This is already being done. Just not by car makers.

Just a thought. Since we drive to work and then park outside. For most people wouldn't adding solar cells to the hood and roof to charge the battery while parked reduce the amount of time needed to charge at night? And make the electric car even cheaper as a work car?

This is already being done.

I suspect that Earthborn was making a little joke.

As do I.

 

[quarky]

Yes the technology exists. No technology exists, however, to handle our collective immaturity regarding fuel useage.

Trying to figure out how to move a 200 lb person in a 4,000 lb vehicle, with less fuel input is a no-brainer. Forget all the fancy stuff, initially, and focus on the weight.

This focus demands a complete re-do of our infrastructure and our political mind-set.
The good news is:

our infrastructure is totally crapping out anyway.
the re-do means jobs!
(and possibly, survival)

just say no to retrofitting.

 

[drkitten]

Yes the technology exists. No technology exists, however, to handle our collective immaturity regarding fuel useage.

Trying to figure out how to move a 200 lb person in a 4,000 lb vehicle, with less fuel input is a no-brainer. Forget all the fancy stuff, initially, and focus on the weight.

Solving the wrong problem.

We already know how to move a 200 lb person in a much smaller than 4,000 lb vehicle. It's called a "bicycle," or for the less athletic, a "motorcycle" or a "moped." That technology's what, 100 years old? 150 years? 200?

Now ask yourself why people are willing to pay $40,000 for a car when you can get a decent bike for $200. It's not just status. There's a lot of things that you can do with a car besides lug your 200 lb butt around. More accurately, there's a lot of things that you NEED do with a car because a bike can't or won't handle it (ever tried moving drywall?)