are communists necessarily anti-semitic?

[A'isha]

The Japanese hate all non-Japanese equally. You're either Japanese or Gaijin.

Actually, there's a strange undercurrent of old-school anti-Semitism in Japan that's different from the usual prejudice against non-Japanese, centering on the standard "Jews secretly rule the world" conspiracy theory. Here's a good, if brief, overview.

It's even infected Japanese pop-culture, with things like some anime series that have even been released in the West being controversial for having a Jewish conspiracy to destroy Japan as the main villains.

 

[bigjelmapro]

Interesting. Many prominent atheists (Dawkins, Myers, Harris, etc) feel exactly the same way.

So are atheists inherently anti-Semitic?

I know its cherry season, but could you make it less obvious? Nomnomnom.

Unfortunately straw is in season longer.

So again, what definition of anti-semitism and/or anti-religion are we going by?

 

[Cleon]

I know its cherry season, but could you make it less obvious? Nomnomnom.

Seriously? You think that's cherry-picking?

The view that religion has a negative effect on society is widespread in the atheist community. If you doubt that, I can only ascribe it to your ignorance on the matter.

Unfortunately straw is in season longer.

That's nonsensical.

So again, what definition of anti-semitism and/or anti-religion are we going by?

Excellent question. If you're going to talk about anti-religious views as evidence of anti-Semitism, I look forward to the cartwheels in logic you use to apply it to communists but not to atheists in general.

 

[HansMustermann]

What are you trying to hard to rewrite the OP of this thread?

Can you spot the difference?:

'Are Communists necessarily anti-semitic'

vs.

'Is Communism inherently anti-semitic'

Can you actually spot the Skeptic quote in the OP, and how it actually matches Taarkin's question without needing any rewrite?

For both the OP and your attempt to rewrite it, Communist and Socialist leaders of the past and present, from philosophers to political leaders, overwhelmingly viewed religion in the negative to its effect on society and its development, from Marx to Lenin. Some went so far as to violently purge/destroy/rethink/rewrite/etc. religion out of the society which they ruled, ie Jewish Autonomous Oblast.

There is a difference between being against religion and being anti-semitic, you know? So the above so far is a completely irrelevant canard for the actual claim in the OP.

Also, speaking of rewriting the op, I don't see that claim having been made just about cherry-picked leaders. So, you know, before hinting that others rewriting the OP or of cherry-picking, it would be nice to practice what you preach.

Its not quite a stretch that this anti-religious stance or actions against religion overall can be translated to being anti-semitic against one specific religion. Judaism being the case here...

And again, anti-semitism is defined as hating the Jews, not as just not liking Judaism. And when you try to phrase it as something as general as, "being anti-semitic against one specific religion" it's as big a nonsense as being racist against one specific submarine.

Besides, the question is what can be supported, not what BS isn't a stretch to believe without evidence. "Isn't a stretch" is a non-argument. It's also not a stretch to believe that you're beating your wife, but "isn't a stretch" doesn't actually make it so.

Doubly so, since even for the documented cases of actual communist antisemites, the arguments against Jews and the arguments against religion generally were actually quite separate and distinct. Religion was only "bad" as being "opium of the people" and preventing them from reaching the "class consciousness" levels that Marx wanted, while Jews got the brunt of Stalin's paranoia just because he suspected them of being more loyal to their own Jewish nation and Israel more than to the USSR, and in Marx's case for basically his own dumb idea that Jews are all mercantile. It's fundamentally different arguments. So, yeah, you can use weasel wording and hypotheticals to try to link the two, but that doesn't override the fact that reality is that-a-way and the hypotheticals don't match it.

Or by what definition of anti-semtism are we working with here?

The dictionary one would be a good start. Or at least one that doesn't involve redefining words, really.

 

[bigjelmapro]

Excellent question. If you're going to talk about anti-religious views as evidence of anti-Semitism, I look forward to the cartwheels in logic you use to apply it to communists but not to atheists in general.

Excellent question and then no answer. Gotcha.

There's a reason why I called you out on cherry-picking since the rest of the post you ignored.

 

[bikerdruid]

Skeptic, is communism inherently anti-Semitic? If so, how? Earlier you said that Judaism and communism contradict each other. How? Does a thing being contradictory to Judaism make that thing inherently anti-Semitic?

skeptic has been asked thes questions several times in this thread, and has yet to answer them.

 

[Tsukasa Buddha]

Except that it isn't libel if it's true. The "red-green" (Islamist / Communist) alliance is a well-known fact. What do you think makes communists march in the street together, in unison, with those who would kill them as infidel atheists if they had the chance? You guessed it: desire to "liberate Palestine", that is, destroy Israel.

One example is "queers for Palestine". Well, in the PA and Gaza queers, as they call themselves here, are killed. But while killing homosexuals anywhere else is an intolerable hate crime according to pro-homosexual groups (and according to any decent person), here, these same groups ignore it and forgive it; why? Because those who do it also kill Jews.

Mycroft added above an example of a communist group that did, mirablis dictu, recognize the not-hard-to-spot Jew-harted behind the "Communists for freeing Palestine" facade and took steps to stop it. This was totally ignored, of course.

[OT]The problem here is often one of "choosing one's battles". People often hold "our" Western nations to higher standards. Should I shout to the people protesting neighborhood violence to stop being so racist and go get peace in Chad? People feel like they will have some power when it comes to "their" groups. Basically, I agree with you in the opposite direction .[/OP]

About the queers, the ones I've seen were pacifists who called for everyone getting along, not Palestine routing Israel (Palestinians becoming "us" and getting better standards of living would set the stage for queer revolution, or something). Whether or not that would be the outcome of their policies matters less than their ideology in this case, IMO. I've read about more radical groups, but it is usually in the context of them getting kicked out of LGBT parades .

(I thought red-green was labour-environmentalist?)

 

[bikerdruid]

(I thought red-green was labour-environmentalist?)

skeptic has failed to address any reasonable questions about his 'commies hate jews' stance.

...and red green is a much loved canadian tv comedic chararacter.