• Security incident: ISF was recently accessed by intruders. Please change your password, and change it anywhere else you used it. Read more

Are Chinese Mothers Superior?

Yeah I've known plenty of Chinese people also. The stereotype isn't that demented. Go back to the forum that you copy and pasted your posts from.

Do you have any evidence to support your assertion that extends beyond your own anecdotal range? If not, then I think you're quite seriously overboard when you say that the stereotype isn't demented. Your anecdotal evidence is then no stronger than mine.

I'll leave your unwarranted, unsusbstantiated ad-hominem accusation of copyright violation unanswered, it is nothing more than a contemptable, false accusation of criminal behavior on my part.
 
*Sigh* I at no stage claimed that a performer could not or did not bring their own artistry to a work. I am specifically talking of very young children, possessing a very high level of technical skill, yet lacking in any sort of innovation or creative input, who are then compared to historical musicians who were at the same age actually producing wholly original works, some of which are still very popular centuries later.

The nature of written music is such that it is possible to achieve a certain quality of performance solely through technical ability.

I hardly think citing adult musicians with a long and prodigious career and incredible wealth of musical knowledge really disproves my point. In fact I suspect if you talked to someone like Yo-Yo Ma they'd agree that their early childhood efforts were about learning technical mastery, and lacked the creative nuance and artistry of their adult work.

You only need go to a childrens' talent show (or for that matter watch an episode of American Idol) to see a perfect example of the same thing amongst singers - people with truly amazing voices who simply contribute no performance or artistry to the work whatsoever.

Funny, I bet you can see the same thing with actors..they are techinally competent but contribute nothing original to their performances.
 
As For the "Tiger Mom":
I think that many American Parents are way too permissive but Jesus ****** Christ......
She seems to want not to have her kids develop the skill of deciding things on their own.Bad mistake.
I would insist that my kids do well in school, but .providing the they put schoolwork first, I would let them have some fun.Certainly unless it was something stupid or dangerous I would give them some leeway in choosing what they do in their leisure time.
Her kids are going to have some major mental problems, guaranteed.


Btw there is a Catholic School ran by nuns in Sacramento that does have a Mother Superior who is a Chinese American....
 
Funny, I bet you can see the same thing with actors..they are techinally competent but contribute nothing original to their performances.

Personally I'd be more proud of my kid writing a play than performing in one but both require a certain level of talent.
 
One thing that puzzles me about Amy Chua's approach, is why is playing the piano a more valued skilled than participating in a play? The odds of have a successful career as a musician is equal to any other position in entertainment.
 
One thing that puzzles me about Amy Chua's approach, is why is playing the piano a more valued skilled than participating in a play? The odds of have a successful career as a musician is equal to any other position in entertainment.


I can't know why Amy Chua felt this way of course, but acting was considered naff just a couple of generations ago and maybe a very conservative person would still feel so? Acting could, for example, require a certain level of undress and most definitely intimate contact with the opposite sex. Instruments other than piano and violin might require an undignified stance and give fewer opportunities for solos. Just guesses.
 
I strongly suspect that Chua's daughters will turn out just fine. Indeed, they'll excel. That's what the children of two Yale professors usually do, however their parents raise them. I'm even willing to bet that Chua's daughters won't purge her when they grow up. Still, a sad fact remains: All three women in the Chua family needlessly suffered for thousands of hours ...
http://econlog.econlib.org/archives/2011/02/the_tiger_mothe.html
 
I can't know why Amy Chua felt this way of course, but acting was considered naff just a couple of generations ago and maybe a very conservative person would still feel so? Acting could, for example, require a certain level of undress and most definitely intimate contact with the opposite sex. Instruments other than piano and violin might require an undignified stance and give fewer opportunities for solos. Just guesses.

I'm not sure how it works in the Chinese culture, but at least for a certain kind of conservative in the West it seems to not be it. I mean, the same people are ok with making a child to learn ballet, which is even more career limiting than acting and involves showing up in pretty tight outfits and getting pawed a lot. Or making a child learn a buttload of poetry by heart and making it recite it to other parents, and, frankly, unless you're going to be an actor or maybe a priest, exactly in which situation will you ever need that skill?

My subjective impression is still that the kinds of things they choose for their kids seems to coincide awfully conveniently with the set of stuff which:

1. Is easy to show off. You can make your kid recite poetry to someone or play the piano or whatever. But you can't really do a whole play at home each time you have guests, can you? Both for ease and time involved, the acting is just not easy to show off.

If you were the kind of praise addict making a kid grind and throw away their childhood to get you the daily shot lest you get the jitters, which would you choose?

2. is traditionally accepted as high class stuff. Most of these people don't really know any more _why_ and for what _purpose_ the people who could afford a piano would want to be able to play it (hint: they didn't have CD players to entertain the guests with) or recite poetry (ditto) or train to do elaborate dances (hint: that's how they danced at a party.) If they did, they'd just get the kid a CD player and get her to learn to dance disco. But they remained in the collective memory as stuff that the posh folks used to do.

By comparison, acting didn't use to be glamorous stuff until well into the 20'th century. The vast majority of artists were around the point where circus clowns are now. Poor, a dime a dozen, and getting less respect than Rodney Dangerfield ;) Plus it was not considered as intellectual and refined as, say, opera or ballet. So it wasn't really something a posh family would prepare their kids for.

So, yeah, wannabe snobs and defenders of the old values and ways, don't remember why it was like that, but they stick to it anyway.

ETA: and in case it's not blindingly obvious already, let me stress that the purpose was precisely to prepare people to do well at social occasions. It was the kind of skills that would prepare one to mingle and socialize at a party. The "chinese mom" turning it into a grind at the expense of depriving her children of any social contact or skills or friends, is a depressing way to miss the whole point.
 
Last edited:
I can't find it but I read in the paper a few months ago that there was a local meeting for Chinese parents about this kind of thing. It was basically along the lines of Chinese activists people telling other Chinese parents "Science says forcing education is a bad thing, please stop screwing up your kids and filling the universities with these people who don't want to be there" I was generally surprised and appreciative that it was being dealt with openly.

If science said that assaulting children as discipline would make them better people that would be one thing. Thankfully we know the evidence shows it's the opposite. The only American states that still permit this in schools, or so I hear, are in the bible belt. Figures, right?

Forcing education is kind of different. If you equate academic success with the highest form of well-being possible, the emotional toll on the kids is still worth it in the eyes of the parents. If you can somehow show them a more enlightened view of success and well-being, they'd be apt to change their minds. That's the hope anyway.
 

ISF - Join now!

Every member here is approved by hand. No bots, no spam, just people who care about evidence and honest debate.

Membership is free!

Create your free account

Back
Top Bottom