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Are believers Unsane?

Diamond said:
I don't think it has anything to do with sanity, but with good and poor pattern recognition.

Yes. But I'd remove 'recognition' from that assessment. It seems it has more to do with good and poor (if you like) patterns of behavior. We're just playing with words here. Insanity & Unsanity. Unsanity, or the disregard of reason by otherwise reasonable people is an inconsistant, if not poor pattern of behavior.

We are not creatures of logic in any case, and scientists are no different in being purblind to their own prejudices than anybody else.

I have no comment about scientists and their prejudices except to say that there are some scientists who recognize their prejudices and strive to stow them away or eliminate them completely. They're called good scientists. Don't want folks to be 'purblind' to that.
 
I have been struggling to write a response to Dr. Stupid's excellent analasys and observations, but am unable to either explain or justify my irrational beliefs in a logical or rational manner. Thusly, I can only conclude that religion, theology and unfounded faith are indeed quite irrational things for humans to uphold. There have been sillier and nuttier ideas, I'm sure, but perhaps not many.

But on the other side, I simply cannot believe that the most rational decision is always the "best" decision. I am not trying to shield my beliefs by saying they are the exception to the norm; but I strongly believe one's faith, or lack of faith, is an extremely personal and subjective matter.

I keep claiming that I'm not trying to prove the existance of God, while also claiming that it cannot be done. And yet for some reason I think I tried... how irrational.

I think the best I can do is follow Phil's comment about science; recognize the irrationality of my beliefs, and strive to keep my predjudices from clouding my judgment. Which is good in any situation.

Hm...

I wonder... is the human race inherantly rational? Or are we slowly becoming more and more irrational as time goes on?
 
Akots,

But on the other side, I simply cannot believe that the most rational decision is always the "best" decision.

It's not always the "best" decision. I will say this, though. If you hold a set of values, and you define the "best" decision to be the one which is most consistent with those values, then it seems clear to me that rational thinking is going to give you the highest likelyhood of making the best decision, based on the information you have available.

Making the decision based on unjustified beliefs may give you a sense of confidence in your decision that you could not get otherwise. It may even give you the false impression that a bad decision was actually a good one. What it is not going to do is give you a higher likelyhood of actually making the best decision.

In fact, that is exactly where the danger in religion lies. Once you begin relying on something other that rational thought to make your decisions, you also lose (or severely impair) your ability to determine whether your decisions were good ones or not. The obvious culmination of this being people who base their decisions entirely on faith, and then also have faith that they made the right decision, regardless of the observable consequences.

I am not trying to shield my beliefs by saying they are the exception to the norm; but I strongly believe one's faith, or lack of faith, is an extremely personal and subjective matter.

Of course it is. But the question of whether rational or irrational decision making is more effective for deciding how to best live up to your values, is an objective one.

I keep claiming that I'm not trying to prove the existance of God, while also claiming that it cannot be done. And yet for some reason I think I tried... how irrational.

I think the best I can do is follow Phil's comment about science; recognize the irrationality of my beliefs, and strive to keep my predjudices from clouding my judgment. Which is good in any situation.

Hm...

That's the best anybody can really hope to do.

Dr. Stupid
 
Akots asked:
I wonder... is the human race inherantly rational? Or are we slowly becoming more and more irrational as time goes on?

I think we are inherantly rational; at least at the most fundamental and base level. As animals, we're driven by survival instincts, which may be cold and harsh at time, but are not irrational. We know that if we don't address that empty feeling in our stomachs, we will stop living. We know that we can kill something and ingest it, and that empty feeling will go away. We don't hang from a tree branch to let the emptiness leak out of us onto the forest floor. We know that there is a certain activity that feels really good, and oh by the way, when we participate in that activity new ones of us arrive shortly thereafter. We don't dance around rocks, hoping they will turn into children.

But as human animals, we've developed higher brain functions. We communicate more efficiently and on a much higher scale. And as a result, our lives have become much easier, allowing time for reflection, contemplation, and questions. We are not consumed with the business of survival anymore, and the door is open for great ideas to be introduced as well for monumental nonsense to flourish.

Now as individuals, we have the capacity to examine everything rationally and discard the BS, as I'd wager most of us that participate in this forum do. But as a collective, the signs often point to an acceptance of the nonsense, which would speak to the second part of your question, Akots.

This phenomenon may be an offshoot of ignorance or it may be just plain laziness, but it's another luxury of our softer existence. In many instances, we're irrational simply because we can be.

Anyone else have a thought?
 
Phil;

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quote:
I think we are inherantly rational; at least at the most fundamental and base level. As animals, we're driven by survival instincts, which may be cold and harsh at time, but are not irrational
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Instincts are totally irrational by definition. There are reasons for instinct to be the way it is, but the instinct process is not rational at all.

I disregard about the human being mostly rational. I would say the majority of the physical actions is automatic, and surely something similar happens with mind activity.
 

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