Are Agnostics Welcome Here?

[annnnoid]

I just saw a green luminous alien in my garden then he got into his space ship and flew away. Do you believe me? Do you believe pushhh's and Limbo's anecdotes?

There's a difference between nonsense and anecdotal claims (it's been clearly explained by Wasp a couple of times)...but you know that don't you.

....don't you...?????

 

[tsig]

Really…how so? Do you get a blood test to check your ‘chemicals’ before saying ‘I love you’?

So love is an illusion…of what?

And do you want to know what is also very common….reports of psi experiences (which, since they happen to people, would – I suppose – have to be categorized as biological phenomenon). Surveys have indicated as much as 80% of the population report psi experiences of one kind or another (far beyond epidemic proportions of any equivalent neurosis or psychosis….if that’s what they are). So may I now conclude that they are legitimate based on your 'common biological phenomenon' argument?


All I’m saying is don’t use the argument of ‘anecdotal claims’ to dismiss an experience or observation. Happens at JREF a lot.

I was talking to god yesterday and he told me you were wrong.

 

[tsig]

Really…how so? Do you get a blood test to check your ‘chemicals’ before saying ‘I love you’?

So love is an illusion…of what?

And do you want to know what is also very common….reports of psi experiences (which, since they happen to people, would – I suppose – have to be categorized as biological phenomenon). Surveys have indicated as much as 80% of the population report psi experiences of one kind or another (far beyond epidemic proportions of any equivalent neurosis or psychosis….if that’s what they are). So may I now conclude that they are legitimate based on your 'common biological phenomenon' argument?





All I’m saying is don’t use the argument of ‘anecdotal claims’ to dismiss an experience or observation. Happens at JREF a lot.

There's a difference between nonsense and anecdotal claims (it's been clearly explained by Wasp a couple of times)...but you know that don't you.

....don't you...?????

Odd, you just dismissed anecdotal claims with a hand wave.

 

[annnnoid]

Odd, you just dismissed anecdotal claims with a hand wave.

....did someone say something...???

....tsig...you're still here. I hadn't noticed. I usually skip all your posts cause, well, you never say anything. Nice to see you haven't lost your touch. Back to sleep now....I won't bother you again.

 

[TheGoldcountry]

....did someone say something...???

....tsig...you're still here. I hadn't noticed. I usually skip all your posts cause, well, you never say anything. Nice to see you haven't lost your touch. Back to sleep now....I won't bother you again.

If you're just going to ignore his point, not to mention your own words, don't bother posting at all.

 

[Ichneumonwasp]

How do you weigh mere stories?

On scales, silly, measured against all those angels on the heads of pins.

 

[dafydd]

There's a difference between nonsense and anecdotal claims (it's been clearly explained by Wasp a couple of times)...but you know that don't you.

....don't you...?????

You don't think that Limbo's anecdotes about god taking him by the finger and suchlike are nonsense? Why not?

 

[punshhh]

Once again,sigh. Things fall off roofs every day all over the world. Nothing spooky here.

yes, I wasn't spooked by it, it was the atheists I was with who were dumb founded.

 

[dafydd]

yes, I wasn't spooked by it, it was the atheists I was with who were dumb founded.

Why? How do you know they were all atheists? The first question that you always ask bystanders who witness a near accident is , 'Are you all atheists?' You have a rich fantasy life. Jackanory, Jackanory........

 

[punshhh]

This story confirms confirmation bias....


It could have been that she noticed a van following her with a guy OGLING her and so looked more carefully to see what freak is stalking her.

Or it could be that she happened to look around and noticed a guy in van driving at the pace of her walking and at the same time ogling her and consequently wanted to make sure it was not one of those drive buy muggings.

Do you know how many guys I have seen in Strip Bars who give a dollar to a stripper and then get all hot and bothered about her smiling at them and then later when they are auto-gratifying have it in their brain that she is in LOVE with them?


What makes a guy who pays a girl to give a lap dance think that the girl is in love with him? WHAT brain malfunction is going on in his cranium to enable him to perceive and confirm that the girl actually gave him a second thought after she got her money and went on to the next mug?

What process of self deception is so instinctive so as to be able to accept fully and without a second reconsideration that a stripper in a bar is actually in love with them?


Is it some kind of confirmation bias perhaps???? Combined with utter inability to REASON???

Do you frequent these establishments?

Anyway I have described the event as it happened, I have not reached any conclusion about what was actually happening, So I have not confirmed any bias. I have no thoughts about an explanation in this case. Rather I am asking for a plausible materialist explanation.

I am sorry.... I just cannot believe your story.... I am sorry…… I think it is a made up one.....

NOT because of the antenna falling and missing you.....no....it is not because of that.....that happens billions of times a year (not necessarily with antennas)....no... that part is believable and MUNDANE.

What I have a hard time believing however is that a group of guys hang together SHOPPING.......SHOPPING as a guys' group activity ..... now THAT is just unheard of....just too impossible to believe.

You are obviously fibbing....I am sorry man... I just cannot swallow your obvious fabrication..... you need a different backdrop PLOT.

It is entirely true, I only mentioned it as the discussion had moved onto anecdotal testimonies. Also I don't attach much significance to these events myself and thats not my interest or motive for posting on this forum.

I must say I am surprised at your reaction.

It gets even weirder when I examined the broken end of the ariel and observed that the bracket it was attached to the support pole had rusted through gradually over what must have been many years(as it was galvanized). It was a still day and there had been a few quite windy days not long before. Why had it not fallen in the wind? I wondered.

 

[punshhh]

Why? How do you know they were all atheists? The first question that you always ask bystanders who witness a near accident is , 'Are you all atheists?' You have a rich fantasy life. Jackanory, Jackanory........

Sigh,

They were personal friends, all scientists and ecology specialists. There may have been one or two closet agnostics amongst them.

 

[gentlehorse]

I've got a buddy who thinks he's psychic, and is pretty much a believer in all things woo. He's the type who, just after something unusual happens, says "I knew that was going to happen!" He's been doing it for the 30 years I've known him, and is quite serious when he does it. For 30 years I've been saying, "You know, man, that would be a lot more impressive if you'd tell me it was going to happen before it actually happens." Hasn't slowed the silly bastard down a bit--

 

[dafydd]

Sigh,

They were personal friends, all scientists and ecology specialists. There may have been one or two closet agnostics amongst them.

An aerial (not ariel) fell off a roof and nearly hit you? So what? Last winter a large branch broke off a pine tree in my garden and nearly hit me. There were no atheists around to witness it. I was lucky, so were you. I fail to see the point of your anecdote. What does this have to do with agnostics being welcome here? Try and control your butterfly mind and get back on topic. Are agnostics welcome here? I have already said yes.

 

[dafydd]

I've got a buddy who thinks he's psychic, and is pretty much a believer in all things woo. He's the type who, just after something unusual happens, says "I knew that was going to happen!" He's been doing it for the 30 years I've known him, and is quite serious when he does it. For 30 years I've been saying, "You know, man, that would be a lot more impressive if you'd tell me it was going to happen before it actually happens." Hasn't slowed the silly bastard down a bit--

It never does. Woos are impervious to logic.

 

[Leumas]

Do you frequent these establishments?

I don't FREQUENT them..... I have not been in one since the last time I was in one....


Seriously.... I have not been in one since I grew up and realized that Strip joints are actually MALE ABUSE.....yes I said "male" abuse.


But....the kind of hanging around we did with other guys when I was a young man was to go to discotheques or to strip joints or hunting or camping or fishing or hiking or playing football or watching it.

NOT SHOPPING..... when we wanted to buy something we did not HANG AROUND let alone with a group.....we just went to the shop and bought it and then went back to doing more important things....like ogling women.

Anyway I have described the event as it happened, I have not reached any conclusion about what was actually happening, So I have not confirmed any bias. I have no thoughts about an explanation in this case. Rather I am asking for a plausible materialist explanation.

Well....you asked for a "materialist explanation" ....so I gave you a few….and I am sure there are many more.

The fact that you were asking for the ”materialist explanation” is an indication that you are unable to come up with one and therefore more inclined to favor the woo one….no? Otherwise why ask for the ”materialist explanation” when you have already thought of one…no? Why even mention the whole thing if you are not trying to attribute to it some sort of woo….no?

I must say I am surprised at your reaction.

Why.... I think the backdrop you used for your story is just not believable enough and consequently undermines the other stuff that is of mundane believability. What kind of guys would hang around in a group SHOPPING?

....in case you did not get it....this is a JOKE...that is why I put the at the end....kind of a textual laugh track to prompt you to know it is a joke and it is time to laugh...like they do in the sitcoms on TV.


But addressing the antenna stuff…… I can believe it very easily….it is totally insignificantly mundane and common place. Millions of people an hour experience such things. None of them are woo…. They all have a very mundane “materialist explanation”.

It gets even weirder when I examined the broken end of the ariel and observed that the bracket it was attached to the support pole had rusted through gradually over what must have been many years(as it was galvanized). It was a still day and there had been a few quite windy days not long before. Why had it not fallen in the wind? I wondered.

See….here is an example of faulty reasoning….but with a glimmer of hope still.

You examined the aerial and found that it was rusted…..so it goes to logic that it would EVENTUALLY break and fall.

When will this happen???? Can you REASON the answer???? Yes….you got it right…..WHEN IT HAPPENED…..see there is nothing “weird” so as to “wonder” about why things that rust will eventually break and fall when they do break and fall.

Also given the place it was in according to your story…it is very likely to have fallen when there were people around to either get hit by it or be just missed. Had it fallen when there was nobody around we would not be talking about it. Also given that young men are now more inclined to go SHOPPING in groups and hang around under rusting shopping center aerials then someone is bound to be hit or missed……so you are just lucky to have been missed instead of in the hospital or dead. That will teach you not to hang around SHOPPING.

But the whole incidence is nothing ”weird” to ”wonder” about…. The same kind of thing happens to millions of people daily.

The question that you should be asking….if you are saved by some providence…..is why you, a SHOPPING ABLE guy should be so special as to be saved by this providence while a LITTLE BOY is not saved from the lascivious clutches and abuses of a heinous monster or from dying from having a distended belly due to malnutrition and eventually dying from HUNGER and disease while never having gone SHOPPING ever in his life?

Don’t you think that this providence at the very least should save little children being violated just like he saved you from the falling antenna…..or even worse….. contrive to make the antenna just miss you so as to cause you and other credulous people to “wonder”…… it would be a lot more WONDERFUL if all starving children all of a sudden had enough food and all children who have autism or down syndrome became cured so that they can hang around SHOPPING.

Don’t you think that it might be a tad self-absorbed and self-righteous and arrogant to think that a providence has nothing better to do than to give you VAGUE indications of its existence while you are SHOPPING and in the meantime millions of people were suffering heinous injustices? I hope you are capable of not being so vain as to not see the fault in your illogic.

 

[dafydd]

When will his mystic powers tell him that it is spelled aerial and not ariel.

 

[TheGoldcountry]

I'm still wondering why he ascribes so much significance to his companions being dumbfounded and speechless. Does he think that atheists should be indifferent to someone almost being impaled by a falling object?

 

[dafydd]

I'm still wondering why he ascribes so much significance to his companions being dumbfounded and speechless. Does he think that atheists should be indifferent to someone almost being impaled by a falling object?

I wouldn't attach much credence to the dumbfounded and speechless bit. They were shocked and relieved that he was ok but it wouldn't make them theists on the spot.

 

[TheGoldcountry]

This entire event took less than a second, the meeting of eyes and mutual understanding less perhaps a quarter of a second.
As I drove up the street I looked in the rear view mirror and could see a spring in her step from the experience, which I also felt although I was sitting down.

Anyone care to give a materialist explanation of why she turned her head and on doing so looked straight at me rather than just looking in my general direction and then homing in on my face?

Exactly what would you expect her to home in on? I meet the eyes of others and share a smile with them all the time, and I'm not a particular outgoing person. I rarely think it anything special, merely being friendly. Did you actually see a "spring in her step," or is this just projection? Could you also elaborate on your own metaphorical spring in the step while sitting, because I'm not sure I'm getting the correct mental image.

 

[dafydd]

Anyone care to give a materialist explanation of why she turned her head and on doing so looked straight at me rather than just looking in my general direction and then homing in on my face?

It all depends on how shocking your face is.