• Quick note - the problem with Youtube videos not embedding on the forum appears to have been fixed, thanks to ZiprHead. If you do still see problems let me know.

Are Agnostics Welcome Here?

So basically you have come up with a god that logic can't touch our any of our instruments. You claim no properties of this god other than to say it is pure. You don't define what this means. You claim we can have no interaction with this god. You claim it is not more complicated and that it follows what we have observed.

Seriously what use is that? How is this god different than any other non-existent made up things in your mind?
 
punshhh said:
I am tying my speculation to something real, the intelligent creators I have observed in nature.
Click to expand...

Why not apply them to rocks you've seen in nature? Or squirrels you've seen in nature? Or huge balls of burning gas you've seen in nature? Or anything else you've seen in nature?
 
punshhh said:
I have one for you to answer, is there a gap or isn't there?
Click to expand...

Using your own definition, this can be rephrased as "Are there things we don't know?"

The answer is obviously yes.

Ok, now what?
 
devnull said:
I particularly love it when people bag science, while sitting in their airconditioned house, drinking ice cold coca-cola, while typing away on their computer after having taken their medication.

rUl4r.
Click to expand...



:clap:


By the way...what does rUl4r stand for?
 
punshhh said:
Well yes and know, I am skeptical of any application of infinity to reality. Infinity is a numerical abstraction invented by humans and may not exist in any other form.
Click to expand...

Infinity exists in other than numerical form.



Leumas said:
:clap:


By the way...what does rUl4r stand for?
Click to expand...

It's leet-speak for 'ruler'. One who rules. I've never read the term before, but I'm presuming it's sort of like saying 'winner'.
 
laca said:
Ruler would be rul3r... You got a off-by-one error there... :p
Click to expand...

Heh. You're right, it's 'rular' but I don't believe 'rular' is a common spelling anymore for one thing and the leet-speak misspellings are part of the style, I guess...
 
Piggy said:
Using your own definition, this can be rephrased as "Are there things we don't know?"

The answer is obviously yes.

Ok, now what?
Click to expand...
Well you wrote this a few days ago.
Piggy said:
The scope of the consequences of the answer is irrelevant.

It's just another question about what does or does not exist, what is or is not real. And we reach the answer the same way.

In this case, the answer is no, it does not exist, it is not real.
Click to expand...

It appears that you are stating that gods don't exist, are not real.

Ho do you know this, while also accepting that there are things we don't know?
 
Daald said:
So basically you have come up with a god that logic can't touch our any of our instruments. You claim no properties of this god other than to say it is pure. You don't define what this means. You claim we can have no interaction with this god. You claim it is not more complicated and that it follows what we have observed.
Click to expand...
"Pure" is a word referring to a concept useful in contemplation of gods. I claim no properties of this god other than its involvement in the origin of the known universe.

On the contrary I consider the possibility of numerous modes of interaction with this god, through a mutual presence in physical existence.

I have ascribed an involvement in the origin of the known universe to this god drawn from the observation of creators/manipulators emerging in nature.

Perhaps creators/manipulators have emerged elsewhere and in other forms in nature with unknown properties.



Seriously what use is that? How is this god different than any other non-existent made up things in your mind?
Click to expand...
It is a concept among many other concepts with utility in contemplation of the truth of existence.
 
punshhh said:
Perhaps you will now demonstrate an application of infinity to something that exists?
Click to expand...

punshhh said:
I did address this point, I said, I regard humanity and everything it creates as natural processes. This view acknowledges the natural process of intelligent creators(manipulators) creating intelligent creators, who intern go on to create, including further intelligent creators in turn ad infinitum*.

No I am specifically not suggesting a first cause, rather an eternity.
Click to expand...


In an eternity you're bound to get an infinity.

Suggesting that neither exists in reality.
 
punshhh said:
Speculation.

I am tying my speculation to something real, the intelligent creators I have observed in nature.
Click to expand...

Have you ever seen intelligent creators create something from nothing?
 
Last edited:
punshhh said:
"Pure" is a word referring to a concept useful in contemplation of gods. I claim no properties of this god other than its involvement in the origin of the known universe.

On the contrary I consider the possibility of numerous modes of interaction with this god, through a mutual presence in physical existence.

I have ascribed an involvement in the origin of the known universe to this god drawn from the observation of creators/manipulators emerging in nature.

Perhaps creators/manipulators have emerged elsewhere and in other forms in nature with unknown properties.



It is a concept among many other concepts with utility in contemplation of the truth of existence.
Click to expand...

You understand that there is a huge distance between a creator and manipulator right? You can't entangle the concepts. If your answer is yes I can because logic doesn't work, then I have no idea what you are talking about.

So far your god is just an intelligent alien. So where did your god come from?

All I am seeing so far is you redefining existing concepts and giving god labels to them. Willing them into existence and calling it a day. That's a logical error. Again, if you say logic doesn't apply we really have nothing to talk about. You are basically accepting things of faith.
 
punshhh said:
It appears that you are stating that gods don't exist, are not real.

Ho do you know this, while also accepting that there are things we don't know?
Click to expand...

This was answered in the long post, and again just a few posts upthread.

I'm OK w/ having a conversation, but it's starting to feel like chewing cud.

I don't have to know everything in order to know that I'm not in Madrid right now.

We don't have to know everything to know something.

And that's pretty much it.
 
Piggy said:
This was answered in the long post, and again just a few posts upthread.

I'm OK w/ having a conversation, but it's starting to feel like chewing cud.

I don't have to know everything in order to know that I'm not in Madrid right now.

We don't have to know everything to know something.

And that's pretty much it.
Click to expand...

Yes I read you answer in the long post and the others, fine that all makes sense. My point is that if there is a god out there or not, human mythology, thought, discussions even the sum total of human knowledge cannot address it as it is not aware of what it is attempting to address.

Either it exists or it does not exist, we don't know and to claim one way or the other is delusional, or to place human thought on a pedestal of importance.
 
Last edited:
tsig said:
In an eternity you're bound to get an infinity.

Suggesting that neither exists in reality.
Click to expand...

Whoops I should have put eternity*


* Where I write eternity*, I am not saying an absolute eternity in the terms of an infinite period of time. It has more of a theological meaning, ie outside or beyond time. Rather like "the perfect day", which is an eternal day.
 
tsig said:
One can fashion the wood into a base ball bat and any time the mystic says the world isn't real give them a whack on the head with the bat.
Click to expand...

Better still the mystic should wear it around their neck to remind them.
 
punshhh said:
Yes I read you answer in the long post and the others, fine that all makes sense. My point is that if there is a god out there or not, human mythology, thought, discussions even the sum total of human knowledge cannot address it as it is not aware of what it is attempting to address.

Either it exists or it does not exist, we don't know and to claim one way or the other is delusional, or to place human thought on a pedestal of importance.
Click to expand...

Do you know you don't know or don't you know you don't know?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Back
Top Bottom