• Quick note - the problem with Youtube videos not embedding on the forum appears to have been fixed, thanks to ZiprHead. If you do still see problems let me know.

Are Agnostics Welcome Here?

HansMustermann said:
Well, if we're still at doing introductions, I'd say I'm a fundamentalist agnostic ;) but that also includes that whatever God or Goddess you can think of, I'm pretty sure chances are against that.
Click to expand...
Mustermann, I used to be fundamentalist agnostic too, but God was joking all the time about it: FUNdamentalist, fundAMENtalist, fundaMENTAList . . . so I dropped my position and entered the Order of Epixus Secularis.
 
slingblade said:
Does it? I thought agnostics don't claim to know if there are any gods...and I can't remember the last time, here anyway, that question was asked of an agnostic. It may have been, but I can't remember, and I think I would, because it seems downright odd to ask an agnostic which god they believe in, seeing as how they don't even know if there are any gods to believe in.
Click to expand...

Actually, I've been asked that question more than once here. It is designed, I think, to get me to give up the label of agnostic and take up atheist instead because according to one of the definitions of atheist, if you don't believe in any gods then you are an atheist.

I finally decided that if someone wants to consider me an atheist because I fit that particular definition, that's okay. It's not how I self-identify but I no longer argue with other people about it.
 
One thing I thought about.. Is the preference for identifying as agnostic instead of atheist something that generally is done by Americans, because of the social stigma of the word atheist? Or are there just as many Europeans who prefer to identify as agnostic as Americans?
 
Leumas said:
Now, the reason for the practice is to avoid sounding out the holy name of YHWH. But words like Elohim and Shaddai and others are pronounced as they are written and written as they are pronounced.
Click to expand...
Wrong. If you are familiar with religious jews, you'll note they don't actually use the word "elohim" either, they call it "elokim".
Hence they do distort every single form of any intentions of calling out to god.

Of course... At some point... the name "elokim" would become a synonoum with god so they'll need another word and repeat to infinite.

Though personally, I always assumed it was out of the whole 10 comandment thing, not to carry god's name in vein, so they don't use anything that could resemble the name. At least that's what local rabbis say.
 
abaddon said:
Why do you feel more comfortable spelling it that way?
Click to expand...

I would also like to note to people that I know plenty of atheists who do the same, simply because it's culturaly accepted in large jewish community.

So saying g-d doesn't make you any more of a believer than talking about thursday means you worship thor. It's a cultrual thing.

It's more a "force of habit" than an actual belief for a lot of people.
Not everything that originated from religion stays on because of religion.
 
Piggy said:
From a linguistic point of view, as long as your reader knows what the string of symbols means, typing "G-d" is no different at all from typing "God".
Click to expand...


Perhaps. But when conversing with a believer I think it's a sign of disrespect to refuse to spell it out. It's not a huge deal. I just don't want to telegraph contempt of their belief.

I prefer to draw them in before the kill. :D
 
Nicole Friedman said:
Reading through many of the threads on this forum, I am honestly wondering how posters on this site feel about agnostics, particularly agnostics with "hope" that there is an intelligent force in the universe.
For the record, I consider myself to be a very rational thinker. I cannot commit myself to saying that G-d exists 100% because I have no tangible proof. However, I refuse to say that G-d does not exist for the same reason. Also, I honestly hope that there is some intelligent, good force in this universe; I admit my unscientific bias but even Einstein believed that there was something behind all of this... which leads me back to my thread topic "Are agnostics welcome here?"
Click to expand...
Even believers are welcome here. Try to be rational in your posts and we'll be happy to have you.
 
Doubt said:
Yes, your little game. You did not really care to find out what my position is or you would ave asked that directly rather than trying to come up with your own description based on how I answered your questions. As it happens, I could also use what Hodulele said. But I choose not to and why I do would drive this thread further off topic. Feel free to do a search for the other threads where people try to tell others how to describe themselves and you can find plenty of info there if you are actually interested.
Click to expand...

Okay, now I'm rather confused. I'm not other people on this board who try to tell others how to describe themselves and I'm at a loss as to why you think this of me.

As I've become more familiar with the ignostic/theological noncognitivistic position, I find that it's pretty much a 'perfect fit' for how I see things. That outlook seeks to first find common definitions and ways of discovering what this 'god' is that people wish to talk about.

The example that I read that I think is a simple illustration of this concept is you saying, "the dress is red and beautiful" and I would ask, "what is a dress?" It is the same thing as if you said, "God is great and powerful" I am then asking, "what is god?"

This is in no way me trying to pigeonhole people into categories of my own making or what I believe others 'should' fit in. This is me saying that an understanding between people as to what exactly is being discussed needs to be reached first before thoughtful communication can occur.
 
DevilsAdvocate said:
Us actual atheists seem to be a rather small minority here. Piggy is the only name that comes to my mind, but there are probably a few others I can’t remember (or aren’t aware of).

Agnostic atheism seems to be majority around these parts. Of course there are agnostics and theists of all varieties, as well. And they are welcome as much as anybody (and probably more because they bring different views into the discussions).
Click to expand...


Add me. It took me awhile to come to that conclusion, but eventually I realized that the only thing keeping me away from self-identifying as an atheist was cultural.

After all, I don't claim to be unable to know other things that I may or may not believe in anyway. I either do or I don't and that changes based on evidence.
 
HansMustermann said:
if anyone tells you that .999999999999 = 1, they're pulling your leg. Actually it's 0.(9)=1. As in, an infinity of 9's after decimal point. And yes, by the same token an infinity of zeroes after the decimal point would make that equal zero too. It should be even easier to see why. An infinity of zeroes and then a 1 is just zero point an infinity of zeroes, which should be easier to see why it's zero. There is no such thing as an infinity and one decimal places, so essentially that 1 never comes.
Click to expand...

I require you to forgive me for getting it wrong, as I'd been awake for almost 24 hours when I wrote that. Also, I require pizza, beer, and a suitable dessert. :p
 
Tricky said:
You and I probably hold nearly the same beliefs, but I still call myself an agnostic atheist because I can't find a way to assign a zero probability to the existence of any and all gods. The chance is vanishingly small, and would be counted as zero in any algebraic calculation, but something in me (probably stubbornness) refuses to deny the possibility of some very intelligent entity who is doing his best to decieve me with his incredible superpowers.

Or it could be aliens.
Click to expand...


As I understood the term, agnostic means you cannot assign any probability to the existence of one or more gods.

As always, I could be wrong.
 
Nicole Friedman said:
I recently got married to a man who I love more than life. He has been returning to his Jewish roots...
Click to expand...
I've always maintained that sexual desire, and/or love if you will, is a skeptic's worst enemy. And I mean that, even though I also mean ;).

(I consider myself agnostic.)
 
Beth said:
Actually, I've been asked that question more than once here. It is designed, I think, to get me to give up the label of agnostic and take up atheist instead because according to one of the definitions of atheist, if you don't believe in any gods then you are an atheist.

I finally decided that if someone wants to consider me an atheist because I fit that particular definition, that's okay. It's not how I self-identify but I no longer argue with other people about it.
Click to expand...

Wow, okay then, and thanks for that, Beth. Have to say, it leaves me :boggled:

And I agree, we can't really control the labels other people tack onto us. It would just be nice if they'd pay attention more often and get closer to the labels we use for ourselves.
 
Nicole Friedman said:
In Judaism you're not supposed to spell out the word G-d. I don't always use the hyphen but I do feel more comfortable doing so.
Click to expand...

How would you pronounce 'god' if you were speaking instead of typing?
Enquiring minds want to know.
Well, at least one enquiring mind wants to know. I am agnostic about the other enquring minds.
 
Roboramma said:
I suspect that by that definition there are no skeptics.
Click to expand...

Like the man says, everybody got a gris-gris, but if you carve out exceptions for very important questions -- such as "How did this universe come to be?" and "Can people continue to exist consciously after the body dies?" -- then you cannot with any seriousness claim that you're a skeptical person.

It's like saying "I'm a vegetarian" while eating a steak dinner, then adding, "but I do eat meat on even numbered days".
 
citizenzen said:
Perhaps. But when conversing with a believer I think it's a sign of disrespect to refuse to spell it out. It's not a huge deal. I just don't want to telegraph contempt of their belief.
Click to expand...

I don't understand that. It's their belief, not yours.

Do you grow a beard before having conversations with Amish people?

Do you put on a turban before having conversations with Sikhs?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Back
Top Bottom