Architects and Engineers for 9/11 Truth

[Dave Rogers]

There is no mechanism for turning large amounts of vertical kinetic energy into horizontal kinetic energy.

Stundied. Really, Chris, this suggests an incalculably low level of intelligence. This is stuff that has been well-known since prehistory. I know you're not that stupid, yet even Newtonian mechanics seems to have passed you by wholesale. Quite apart from the good old argument that energy is a scalar, not a vector, this is trivially easily refuted. Take a piece of dry spaghetti, hold it vertically, and press down on the top. At some point it will break, and a piece will fly off. You'll notice that it doesn't go downwards. Now try the same thing, but striking the top more rapidly. Congratulations - you've just done the impossible.

Dave

 

[Christopher7]

Chris, you aren't one either. In fact, your ENTIRE argument is based on personal incredulity. You simply can't believe anything but explosives could have produced the effects of the collapse.

Right now we are talking about 4 ton framework sections being hurled 500-600 feet. What else could it be?
You will dodge this question because you have no answer and you cannot admit that.

You are less qualified to discuss this topic than even some people on this board, much less in the engineering and scientific community.

Are you referring to

?

 

[Disbelief]

Right now we are talking about 4 ton framework sections being hurled 500-600 feet. What else could it be?
You will dodge this question because you have no answer and you cannot admit that.

Now to help prove your theory, you just have to calculate how much explosives would be required to hurl these panels that far. Once you do that, you should be able to determine the dB level that these explosives would produce.

 

[Christopher7]

Stundied. Really, Chris, this suggests an incalculably low level of intelligence. This is stuff that has been well-known since prehistory. I know you're not that stupid, yet even Newtonian mechanics seems to have passed you by wholesale. Quite apart from the good old argument that energy is a scalar, not a vector, this is trivially easily refuted. Take a piece of dry spaghetti, hold it vertically, and press down on the top. At some point it will break, and a piece will fly off. You'll notice that it doesn't go downwards. Now try the same thing, but striking the top more rapidly. Congratulations - you've just done the impossible.

Dave

Some people compare apples and oranges. The great minds here compare steel beams with spaghetti and pickle chips, doh!

I guess that's what one should expect from a bunch of nutty
CONSPIRACY THEORISTS.

 

[dtugg]

Now to help prove your theory, you just have to calculate how much explosives would be required to hurl these panels that far. Once you do that, you should be able to determine the dB level that these explosives would produce.

Come you give him way too much credit. There is no way that he can do that. He didn't even know what the law of conservation of energy and the law of conservation of momentum without looking it on wikipedia (he copied straight from there without giving a source), yet he claims they prove 9/11 was an inside job.

 

[Disbelief]

Some people compare apples and oranges. The great minds here compare steel beams with spaghetti and pickle chips, doh!

I guess that's what one should expect from a bunch of nutty
CONSPIRACY THEORISTS.

Yet you hitch your wagon to the cardboard box guy, along with agreeing with pizza box/sponge guy.

Come you give him way too much credit. There is no way that he can do that. He didn't even know what the law of conservation of energy and the law of conservation of momentum without looking it on wikipedia (he copied straight from there without giving a source), yet he claims they prove 9/11 was an inside job.

Actually, I give him zero credit. I typed that for any lurkers, just to once again highlight his handwaving of the important things.

 

[twinstead]

Right now we are talking about 4 ton framework sections being hurled 500-600 feet. What else could it be?
You will dodge this question because you have no answer and you cannot admit that.

We have an answer. You just refuse to accept it. The collapse itself and gravity is responsible. Many, many folks as qualified or MORE than you concur. You ARE IN THE ABJECT MINORITY.

Oh, and yes, there are folks on this very forum more qualified than you. And, every single expert who contributed to the NIST report is more qualified than you. So, forgive me if I desire a second opinion on the "only explosives could have hurled those framework sections".

So, again, ad naseum, do you have any support from respected engineering and scientific communities?

 

[GlennB]

Some people compare apples and oranges. The great minds here compare steel beams with spaghetti and pickle chips, doh!

I guess that's what one should expect from a bunch of nutty
CONSPIRACY THEORISTS.

No. You made the categorical (and absurd) statement that a purely vertical force can never give rise to motion with a horizontal component.

It doesn't even take a knowledge of vectors to demonstrate that this is untrue. We have all witnessed the refutation of your claim 000's of times in our daily lives. Every time something falls vertically (or is compressed vertically) and stuff starts flying sideways, in fact. I dare say Sir Isaac Newton's apple went off sideways after hitting his head. In fact it must have, unless it was so rotten and mushy that it got stuck on his bonce.

People are simply giving you everyday examples to show that you're wrong. Clinging to your claim just makes you look foolish. I don't even believe that you still believe what you posted on this topic, it's just that you have invested so much ego into the statement that it has become too valuable to let it go.

 

[nicepants]

No one here can provide another explanation, just a lot of irrelevant crap about ... roller coasters changing course. This is your idea of scientific evidence.

It's physics. Perhaps if you understood that, you wouldn't make such ridiculous claims as this:

There is no mechanism for turning large amounts of vertical kinetic energy into horizontal kinetic energy.

Please answer my question:

When a roller coaster reaches the bottom of a vertical drop and the track levels, what happens to its vertical kinetic energy?

Right now we are talking about 4 ton framework sections being hurled 500-600 feet. What else could it be?

Do you think that explosives are the only way to move a 4 ton framework 600 feet?

 

[Dave Rogers]

Some people compare apples and oranges. The great minds here compare steel beams with spaghetti and pickle chips, doh!

I guess that's what one should expect from a bunch of nutty
CONSPIRACY THEORISTS.

Seriously, Chris, you've not just jumped the shark here, but cleared it by a considerable margin. You are asserting that it's impossible to convert motion in one direction to motion in another direction. This claim is so far beyond stupid that stupid people can't see it with the Hubble telescope. If you can't see for yourself how stupid it is, there's no point doing anything more than pointing out to anybody else who may be reading this that your views on the events of 9/11 are informed by less understanding of simple mechanics than I'd expect from a five-year-old with a Meccano starter set.

Dave

 

[Macgyver1968]

When a roller coaster reaches the bottom of a vertical drop and the track levels, what happens to its vertical kinetic energy?

How dare you use logic and common sense in this thread!!! I demand you add some woo to that!!

How dare you sir! How dare you.

 

[lapman]

Structural steel will bend a little and spring back but if it is bent a lot, it doesn't. Structural steel cannot store a great deal of energy like spring steel.

How much energy would a 30 foot column have if it is bent to it's elastic limit? Remember, the outer columns were build to be flexible to handle the wind load. BTW, please provide even one example, before or since 9/11, where a 4 ton steel column was found intact with no blast effects 600 feet away from the explosion. While your at it, please provide even one example of a CD by explosives, before or since 9/11, where not one single audio recording device picked up the sound of the explosive sequence.

 

[DavidJames]

When a roller coaster reaches the bottom of a vertical drop and the track levels, what happens to its vertical kinetic energy?

I'm afraid using analogies to irrational people isn't always effective.

C7 rejects examples like yours, but Heiwa can dribble out pizza box ******** and CTists eat it up.

I'm not suggesting people stop, but we shouldn't be surprised when irrational people respond, well, irrationally.

 

[Seymour Butz]

You are ignoring the fact that the core columns were mutually laterally supported by the floor girders between them on every floor. This creates a grid or matrix type structure that is capable of standing without additional lateral support.

Wow, a true statement for a change!!

But tell me, when the entire building's columns buckle and fall, the core columns fall onto the floors and beams that you talk about.

What do you think would happen to them?

If you agree that they would break, that would leave the core columns unbraced, right?

And if they are now unbraced, and the descending upper block is still falling onto and through them, as they are also presumably punching up through the descending floors - making THOSE columns unbraced too, btw - they would break off now, right?

Eventually, the descending upper block will diminish, and there will be less "there" to break off sufficent floor beams to cause long unbraced lengths and/or the core columns reach a sufficient size to resist breaking immediately.

This is why the spires "happened". But they DID lose some of their floor bracing, as seen in video closeups. And they had some lateral motion imparted to them - this is also seen in the videos. So the lower level core columns broke off too at the welds.

 

[Seymour Butz]

How do you convert that "potential" vertical energy into lateral energy?

Why would you need to?

The ext columns can be seen standing for a few moments after the collapse front moves by. This means that they are now essentially a large wall with NO bracing to them.

Then all they need to do is fall outwards. And if they start from high enough, they can reach the Winter Garden easily.

Actually, the new video from ae911troof, where they show the onset of 1's collapse over and over, show exactly that - namely ext columns falling through the dust cloud out towards the WG. Notice also that the collapse front has long passed, meaning that there wasn't any where for these explosives to be placed anymore - they would have been suspended in midair.

Impossible.

 

[Seymour Butz]

It would have taken hundreds, if not thousands of kilos of explosives to send a huge piece of steel flying hundreds of feet. It is not possible that that much explosives went off without being noticed.

Actually, I did this for a 4 ton column tree, using 1/4" steel, and using Mackey's formula that he had in one of his papers, it takes about 300 kg - IIRC - to impart enough velocity to reach the WG from the very top of the towers.

That's just for 1 column....

So yes, it is insane to think that explosives were responsible....

 

[nicepants]

Actually, I did this for a 4 ton column tree, using 1/4" steel, and using Mackey's formula that he had in one of his papers, it takes about 300 kg - IIRC - to impart enough velocity to reach the WG from the very top of the towers.

That's just for 1 column....

So yes, it is insane to think that explosives were responsible....

Just to nip this in the bud...

You should clarify that the figure above is how much explosive material which would be required absent any other force pushing on it as CTists are likely to pull their old canard 'well if you're saying it could be done with NO explosives, then it wouldn't take that much'. Sorry guys...you can't have your cake and eat it too.

 

[HawksFan]

Just out of curiosity, does C7 have any evidence of 4 ton anythings being "hurled" or "ejected" 600 feet horizontally?

I don't mean anything that obviously fell over from around 600 feet like it peeled away from the structure, but something being "hurled" 600 feet?

 

[Seymour Butz]

Just to nip this in the bud...

You should clarify that the figure above is how much explosive material which would be required absent any other force pushing on it as CTists are likely to pull their old canard 'well if you're saying it could be done with NO explosives, then it wouldn't take that much'. Sorry guys...you can't have your cake and eat it too.

Well, C7 has pretty much eliminated that possibility when he says that vertical KE can't be converted into horizontal motion. Nor can he admit to ANY, otherwise, it can be turned back on him in the same manner.

But this also assumes a free standing column, not attached to anything - which would require MORE explosives - and "floating" in midair.

It's also obvious that there's nowhere for these explosives to be placed anymore since the floors have already collapsed.

In order for this to have any legs, you'd need to see the ext columns separate from the towers just as the collapse front gets there. But this isn't seen.

 

[alexi_drago]

Just to nip this in the bud...

You should clarify that the figure above is how much explosive material which would be required absent any other force pushing on it as CTists are likely to pull their old canard 'well if you're saying it could be done with NO explosives, then it wouldn't take that much'. Sorry guys...you can't have your cake and eat it too.

Well, since C7 reckons no vertical forces can result in horizontal motion I wouldn't say it's necessary to point that out for him.

A sign of intelligence is being able to admit when you're wrong and to learn from it, I see very little of that from the truthers.