Architects and Engineers for 9/11 Truth - List of Names?

[deep]

Depends. Are you including the dozens that are just fabrications, made up and signed on just to prove how horrible Gage vets his "signees"?

Oh, now there are "dozens"? Wow. Do you have any evidence to support that claim (e.g., even just a single name)?

 

[deep]

Well, hell, why don't they just include barbers, belly dancers, and shoe salesman in the group too?

Because there aren't very many barbers, belly dancers, or shoe salesman with engineering degrees.

 

[twinstead]

Because there aren't very many barbers, belly dancers, or shoe salesman with engineering degrees.

Do you feel electrical and software engineers are qualified to declare the NIST report wrong?

 

[TruthersLie]

I don't see the problem with having three groups, clearly listed out. It makes it easier for folks to parse through to see their credentials. They do check credentials.

No. You misunderstand.

They are in different groups. They started making the first claim, then couldn't raise the numbers so they CHANGED their criteria to increase the numbers... They still couldn't raise them so they CHANGED their criteria yet again.

it is outright lying by implying that everyone who is classified as a architectural/engineering professional is qualified, licensed or degreed. When in fact 1/3 of that number are NOT qualified, not licensed or degreed.

~10% membership structural/civil is not bad. How many structural/civil engineers do we have here that will submit their credentials for review?

Yet the whole premise of the petition is that they have 1,000 architects and engineers (which I have just shown you they don't have. They have 1,000 architectural and engineering professionals... which is a big difference)

Why do they have to inflate their numbers? Why not just say we have 100 structural engineers who disagree?

AS for your other BS. As far as I know every engineer here is willing to submit their credentials to review to an independent arbiter. in fact it has been done for several.

I don't see a problem with adding office workers, filing clerks, secretaries as long as they provide proof on who they are, to prevent the Fred and Barney syndrome again.

You don't see the problem with the office workers being included in the 1000 members? Really? Is the office secretary qualified to make any claims about architectural or engineering issues? Why change the petition to include these individuals? it is just an appeal to authority.

They are signing a petition for a new investigation. What's wrong with letting draftsmen sign? I've worked with several draftsmen that have as much knowledge and experience as an engineer, they just chose not to pursue the degree.

again my previous line. Ain't that special. I know several draftsmen who should be engineers too. But that isn't what this is about. Including draftsmen, copy boys, filing clerks, summer interns, and secretaries in the list is dishonest, isn't it?

And on the flip side, I've know engineers who I wouldn't trust to design my dog house.

I believe, in the beginning, there were a lot of folks spamming the site so they had to shut it down and start over. They use to also have a message board, but they shut it down too, I think because there were too many arguments that one had to sign the petition in order to blog.

It is a joke. That is what it is.

Very simple. Ready?

How many peer reviewed engineering/architectural analysis of the events of 9/11 have these 1000 professionals compiled in the previous 8 years?

(i'll give you a hint... it sounds like Zero)

And to make matters more intersting...
from that list we have
it was CD explosives
no it was thermite
no it was fake planes
no it was mininukes
no it was ...
...
...

Can they just provide any narrative of the day? It is usually a good starting point. I'll wait for it.

 

[TruthersLie]

Because there aren't very many barbers, belly dancers, or shoe salesman with engineering degrees.

Sorry...
but shoe salesmen, barbers and belly dancers have just as much knowledge as a filing clerk in an architectural firm.

Or as much knowledge as the secretary in an engineering office.

Possibly more.

ETA: Someone should ask this cheerleading engineer
http://www.houstontexans.com/news/Story.asp?story_id=3750

or this one
Dr. Soma Kalb, PhD - Washington Redskins Cheerleaders

Dr. Kalb did her undergraduate studies in electrical engineering at the University of Maryland and then went on to pursue graduate studies in biomedical engineering. After receiving a Master’s Degree at the Johns Hopkins University, she was to start her doctoral studies at Duke University in Fall of 1998. However, when she was selected as one of the 1998-1999 Washington Redskins Cheerleaders, she deferred her studies for one semester. In 1999, she left the DC area to pursue her Ph.D. in biomedical engineering. She received her Ph.D. in 2004 and now works as a biomedical engineer for a federal agency.

 

[deep]

Sorry...
but shoe salesmen, barbers and belly dancers have just as much knowledge as a filing clerk in an architectural firm.

Or as much knowledge as the secretary in an engineering office.

Possibly more.

All petition signers have an engineering degree - it's a requirement.

 

[TruthersLie]

All petition signers have an engineering degree - it's a requirement.

Ummm no it is not.

not when you qualify draftsmen as architectural and engineering professionals.

So a draftsman can be counted in that 1000 person list.

now you can be degreed in engineering and counted as a degreed engineer.

But in the big number of 1000+ architectural and engineering professionals, anyone who works in an architectural or engineering firm is accepted.

that includes draftsmen, office workers, filing clerks, etc...

It is misleading isn't it?

ETA: And what they don't count architects? Why are you being misleading?

 

[carlitos]

Belly Dancers for Truth would get a lot more web traffic, I'd bet.

deep, I know this won't shock anyone, but your last post is a lie. Unless "HBO" is an engineering school?

Name: Ziegel Ziegelaar
Title: Sales
Degree: HBO City: Spaarndam
Province / Region: NH
Country: Netherlands
Category: Other Supporters and A&E Students
Discipline: Other — Sales
Status: Degreed and Licensed
Bio:
(pending review)


Personal 9/11 Statement:
To many coincidences.


Verification Status:

And, last but not least, Appeal to Authority^WP is still a logical fallacy. Not a valid argument.

 

[deep]

deep, I know this won't shock anyone, but your last post is a lie. Unless "HBO" is an engineering school?

That person is listed under Other Supporters and A&E Students. Anyone can add their name to that list - there are no requirements that I'm aware of, and they aren't counted as one of the 1,100+ "architectural and engineering professionals".

 

[deep]

But in the big number of 1000+ architectural and engineering professionals, anyone who works in an architectural or engineering firm is accepted.

OK - give me an example of someone in that list who does not have an engineering or architectural degree.

 

[carlitos]

@deep

I note your explanation for the HBO guy - thanks. Perhaps you missed the last part of my post? I would appreciate your reply.

And, last but not least, Appeal to Authority^WP is still a logical fallacy. Not a valid argument.

 

[carlitos]

Adding to my prior question, what is the point of aggregating a list of people, all of whom believe different things. Some say "Thermite," others say "faster than free fall," and some question whether there were even planes. What is the point?

A challenge to ae911truth supporters - please post one cohesive hypothesis to explain the events of 9/11/2001.

 

[deep]

I note your explanation for the HBO guy - thanks. Perhaps you missed the last part of my post? I would appreciate your reply.

Are you familiar with the concept of a petition? It is, by definition, an appeal to authority with respect to a specific cause. No argument there.

 

[deep]

Adding to my prior question, what is the point of aggregating a list of people, all of whom believe different things. Some say "Thermite," others say "faster than free fall," and some question whether there were even planes. What is the point?

The answer lies in the body of the petition - they are united in their support for a new investigation.

 

[carlitos]

OK, indulge me here

A challenge to ae911truth supporters - please post one cohesive hypothesis to explain the events of 9/11/2001.

Is there anyone, on the list of 1,100+ "architects and engineers," that has a hypothesis which we can test? I'm not asking you personally. Just select one hypothesis from anyone on that list, and let's test it here. Copy and paste, link, whatever.

 

[enik]

No. You misunderstand.

They are in different groups. They started making the first claim, then couldn't raise the numbers so they CHANGED their criteria to increase the numbers... They still couldn't raise them so they CHANGED their criteria yet again.

it is outright lying by implying that everyone who is classified as a architectural/engineering professional is qualified, licensed or degreed. When in fact 1/3 of that number are NOT qualified, not licensed or degreed.



Yet the whole premise of the petition is that they have 1,000 architects and engineers (which I have just shown you they don't have. They have 1,000 architectural and engineering professionals... which is a big difference)

Why do they have to inflate their numbers? Why not just say we have 100 structural engineers who disagree?

AS for your other BS. As far as I know every engineer here is willing to submit their credentials to review to an independent arbiter. in fact it has been done for several.

I agree, they should be advertising that over 8,300 Engineers, Architects, secretaries, draftsmen, janitors, strippers, would like to have an independent investigation into 9-11 etc etc. I didn't realize they had so many "others".

Incidentally, what is your profession?

 

[carlitos]

More than a billion and a half people believe that there is no God but Allah, and that Muhammed is his prophet. I guess that they are about 180,000 times more "truthy" than ae911truth.

 

[TruthersLie]

OK - give me an example of someone in that list who does not have an engineering or architectural degree.

Deep.

Tell me why they changed the heading?

I just put the list in my excel spreadsheet... and it is less than 1100 people (having copied the entire list from the AE911 petition of degreed or licensed, and that is including Non US engineers and architects. Why is that?

And no, I'm not posting my excel spreadsheet... so sorry. If you want to, feel free.. just copy the entire list into excel. remove the addresses and degree lists and make it one column. then number is under 1000.

Maybe it is just creative accounting?

Now lets focus Deep.

Can you tell me why electrical engineers count for anything on this list? HOw about software engineers?

Or my favorite Landscape engineers (I'm not making these up... there are at least 10 that I counted).

So again, appeal to authority.

How many of those 1000ish (I'll be generous) signatories have put out any peer reviewed engineering journal articles which call into question ANYTHING from 9/11?

 

[Hokulele]

I agree, they should be advertising that over 8,300 Engineers, Architects, secretaries, draftsmen, janitors, strippers, would like to have an independent investigation into 9-11 etc etc. I didn't realize they had so many "others".

Considering that these 8300 whatevers do not have a shred of evidence that there needs to be an independent investigation into 9/11, who cares? Gage's arguments have been done to death and at best they are wrong, at worst they are batpoo crazy.

Incidentally, what is your profession?

Considering I have been a CADD Manager for a civil/structural engineering firm, does that mean my opinion is more valuable than someone else's?

 

[TruthersLie]

I agree, they should be advertising that over 8,300 Engineers, Architects, secretaries, draftsmen, janitors, strippers, would like to have an independent investigation into 9-11 etc etc. I didn't realize they had so many "others".

Incidentally, what is your profession?

Does it matter what my profession is?

Why?
I'm not using an appeal to authority.

But since you ask, I'm a college professor who teaches research methods, experimental design and computer literacy courses (actually, I teach pretty much whatever my school asks me to teach.. so far it includes the above 3 courses plus information literacy, intermediate algebra and even a few education courses. That is the benefit of having 2 MA's, and 3 undergraduate degrees)

And yet, twoofs can't get more than 200 people at any rally in NYC on 9/11. Damn... I can get more folks to come out for Cosplay events in Dubai.