Archaeology and Creationism

[Soapy Sam]

Uhm, no. I was talking about Monte Verde, Chile, a 12.5ky - old human settlement (standard healthy debate still going on IIRC). Should have added Kennewick man instead of findings in South America to keep things within the original geographic context.

Copy that. I stand corrected.

http://www.andaman.org/book/chapter53/monteverde/monteverde.htm

 

[Zep]

i have a big problem with biblical archealogy becasue it seems to start from the premise that the bible is tright and everything we find will jsut back it all up even if the connection is extremly tenuous.

You should meet Dr Henry Morris, modern founder of creationism (and now a dead twit).

Also, read about Ken Ham, professional creationist loudmouth and Answers In Genesis el presidente.

His Australian accent, keen sense of humor, captivating stories and exceptional PowerPoint illustrations have made him one of North America’s most effective Christian communicators.

That's all it takes to impress SOME folks - good Powerpoint presentations!

 

[JayT]

Zzzzzzzzzz ... Huh ?

... apparently over 40% of the UK population support the teaching of "alternatives" to evolution in state funded schools.

Is there an 'alternative' to evolution that does a superior job of explaining what we observe, drawing many disciplines of the biological sciences together with complimentary observations?

We should not tear down our present house until we have something at least as good, or preferably better, to replace it.

When such an alternative is demonstrated to do a superior job of explaining things than evolution, then by all means, science should favour that theory instead. That's the way science works.

Science admits to its errors, corrects them and moves on - always forward. Something that's sorely lacking in religions that seem to be caught in an endless time warp still existing 1000+ years in the past, often in dress and in beliefs.

Sometimes public opinion has no sound foundation to stand on.

There is no law cast in stone that the general sum of popular opinion is invariably correct or well informed. There are many historical examples that prove otherwise. That's enough to elicit caution in taking public opinion too seriously.

Here's some interesting poll statistics regarding religion and the supernatural as pertains to the former America:

http://www.religioustolerance.org/chr_poll3.htm

Interesting.

 

[JayT]

Ham Sandwich to go, hold the science please ...

... Also, read about Ken Ham, professional creationist loudmouth and Answers In Genesis el presidente.That's all it takes to impress SOME folks - good Powerpoint presentations!

- good Powerpoint presentations and pseudo-intellectuality, pseudo-science, pseudo-experts, smooth talking and the ethics and integrity of a con man. Gets the job done every time!

Yep. Ken is a ham alright!

If pigs are unclean, then his name is politically incorrect in the extreme - I'm offended! Never must that filthy word 'HAM' be seen in public! He must change his name at once or I'll sue!

LOL

I've seen that site. Always good for a laugh.

These people should have regular appearances on Comedy Central.


Here's another site that offers as much evidence in favour of religion as any other.

A list of ALL the errors in the Bible:
http://www.av1611.org/kjv/allerror.html

Where do they get these people ?

The pod people are taking over the world!

 

[Badly Shaved Monkey]

My concern is that in many schools this will be used to push the creationist agenda. I made an official visit to the Emmanuel School, where creationsim is given equal time to Darwin. There was a chilling quote ' "our children know what to believe" - of course they do, they have been indoctrinated thoroughly.
See also in the context of a Prime Minister who, when questioned on the issue, said that Evolution was only a theory, so it was also just a matter of faith and belief, not proof...

Did anyone else here see the recent Rod Liddell programme on Channel 4 where he tackled the creationists. In particular he interviewed the headteacher of Reg Vardy's tame schools.

When challenged how, as an intelligent man, could McQuoid believe that the Earth was created in 6 days he gave a curiously evasive answer. To paraphrase- if it says it in the Bible, I have to believe it. Now there's an answer a politician would give. Not a straight assertion of faith, but a mealy-mouthed hedge loaded with contingency. Clearly he is having some difficulty believing his quota of six impossible things before breakfast, but by choosing to wear the badge of creationism he has to swallow its unpalatable aspects.

 

[Freethinker]

You are exactly right. Many biblical archaeologist are starting with a premise and looking to find evidence that supports their premise.

One of my favorite quotes, formerly in my sig:

[Those] who have an excessive faith in their theories or in their ideas are not only poorly disposed to make discoveries, but they also make very poor observations.
Claude Bernard (1813-78) French physiologist, 1865.

 

[JayT]

Repent ye Sinners

... if it says it in the Bible, I have to believe it.

Well, I guess that settles that matter once and for all! You can't argue with such air-tight logic. Mr. Spock would be green with envy.

LOL


It's an insult to intelligence and a pointless waste of time to argue with a person holding that position. What possible merit is there in such an effort?

Neither side will concede a single point to the other.

Since intelligence obviously has nothing to do with his 'reasoning', any appeal to intelligence is wasted on such a person.

That's why I call them "funda-mental-cases" - to be kind about it.



A fundamentalist is programmed like the Terminator.
Listen! And understand! That fundamentalist is out there. It can't be bargained with. It can't be reasoned with. It doesn't feel pity, or remorse, or fear. And it absolutely will not stop, ever, until the voice of reason is dead!


God will get you, ye sinner, and your little dog too!


YadaYadaYada

 

[Badly Shaved Monkey]

Well, I guess that settles that matter once and for all! You can't argue with such air-tight logic. Mr. Spock would be green with envy.

That's not quite the point I was making. By expressing it in the way he did it shows that his real opinion is that creationism is intellectually unsustainable but that he is effectively forcing himself to believe it.

So, he's not just advocating an unsustainable idea but he's doing it hypocritically. This is rather worse for someone who is identifying himself with the forces of righteousness rather than for a politician of whom it is expected.

 

[JayT]

The Bible Commands That We Hate - H. A. Dobbs

That's not quite the point I was making. By expressing it in the way he did it shows that his real opinion is that creationism is intellectually unsustainable but that he is effectively forcing himself to believe it.

So, he's not just advocating an unsustainable idea but he's doing it hypocritically. This is rather worse for someone who is identifying himself with the forces of righteousness rather than for a politician of whom it is expected.

I see your point more clearly now. There's no disagreement from me.

But keep in mind that the issue has become so heavily politicised today that I'm not terribly surprised at his political forked-tongue approach.

Many of his ilk are flagrant, transparent hypocrites. I wonder if they care or even realise how obvious it is to the most casual observer.

It's starting to make me angry watching the way they operate like political con men, attempting to pervert the laws of the land to their own ends.

Grrrrrrr

I hope I live to see the day when, as in the early days of our country, we won't have any public schools. The churches will have taken them over again and Christians will be running them. What a happy day that will be!"

Rev. Jerry Falwell (1979)

As I understand it, isn't that why many people came to the USA in the first place? To get away from such religious domination - Christian and otherwise?

Now it's starting all over again!



Out of one side of their mouth it's:

Love thy enemy. Do good to those who persecute you. Turn the other cheek ... blah, blah, blah.



Out of the other side, it's:

The inability or unwillingness to hate makes a person worthless. If we do not hate detestable things, the quality of our character is suspect. The Bible commands that we hate.

H. A. (Buster) Dobbs, Editor of Firm Foundation
magazine and Church of Christ preacher, from the
June 1994 issue.

Only in a nightmare will the Christian Taliban rule!
2000+ years of their horror - enough is enough!
They had their chance and they blew it.

I've run out of cheeks to turn.

A pox on them!

 

[scotth]

I hope I live to see the day when, as in the early days of our country, we won't have any public schools. The churches will have taken them over again and Christians will be running them. What a happy day that will be!"

Rev. Jerry Falwell (1979)

Wow, we've (humans) tried that before, it was the called the @#$%ing dark ages.

Edited to add: In case anyone missed the connection that JayT was making.

Re-edited to seperated the following: We'll be burning witches in no time. On the bright side, I could make a strong case for burning John Edward.

 

[JayT]

Marshmallow Roast - All Witches Invited Free - ID Required

... We'll be burning witches in no time. On the bright side, I could make a strong case for burning John Edward.

He'll have to take his place in the queue. Sylvia Browne has an advance reservation. Ladies first - chivalry is not dead!

LOL

By the way, in the USA they hanged 'witches' instead of burning them - but any excuse to party will do.

Kids, can you say: Toga... Toga... Toga... Toga ...