Arafats gift to civilization

[Mycroft]

RABAT - Teenage Moroccan twin sisters who were arrested two weeks ago and accused of plotting to carry out a suicide attack on a supermarket in the capital Rabat, were due to appear in court Friday.

The 14-year-old twins, named at the time of their arrest in early September by Liberation newspaper as Imane and Sanae al Ghariss, are accused of plotting with a friend, also 14, and five radical Islamic accomplices to carry out a suicide attack in a store in Rabat's residential Souissi neighbourhood.

http://www.middle-east-online.com/english/?id=7160

Exactly what were they going to protest? I don't know, but over in the West Bank, they have shown the world how poor and disenfranchised muslims can give their empty lives meaning through death and murder.

 

[Ed]

They were driven to it, it is not their fault, it is a valid form of conflict, it is the fault of the Jews, it is the fault of the US.

 

[Iconoclast]

The 14-year-old twins, named at the time of their arrest in early September by Liberation newspaper as Imane and Sanae al Ghariss, are accused of plotting with a friend, also 14, and five radical Islamic accomplices to carry out a suicide attack in a store in Rabat's residential Souissi neighbourhood.

Yep, teens get up to such mischief.

 

[Mr Manifesto]

From the article:

Liberation newspaper has reported that the twins had dabbled in begging and prostitution in Rabat before being "fascinated" by the September 11 attacks in the United States and turning to radical Islam.

Sounds like it was more to do with OBL than Arafat. Or is Arafat responsible for all suicide bombings now? Like the Vietnam war ones? Or the Kamikazes?

 

[Mycroft]

From the article:
Sounds like it was more to do with OBL than Arafat. Or is Arafat responsible for all suicide bombings now? Like the Vietnam war ones? Or the Kamikazes?

Innovation deserves credit. The first to conceive an idea and put it into practice should get mention when the idea or action is put to use in other places at other times.

 

[Mr Manifesto]

Innovation deserves credit. The first to conceive an idea and put it into practice should get mention when the idea or action is put to use in other places at other times.

Except that Arafat didn't innovate the idea. Unless he was an advisor to the Japanese army in WWII.

 

[Chaos]

Suicide attacks are much older than that - the Hashishin, 11th & 12th century, the Zealots, 1st century, and probably others as well.

The only thing that´s new is the bombs; before that they had to rely on the enemy to kill them after their deed.

 

[Mycroft]

Except that Arafat didn't innovate the idea. Unless he was an advisor to the Japanese army in WWII.

Suicide attacks are much older than that - the Hashishin, 11th & 12th century, the Zealots, 1st century, and probably others as well.

The only thing that´s new is the bombs; before that they had to rely on the enemy to kill them after their deed.

Most innovations have their roots in antiquity. There is nothing new under the sun, but there are old ideas with new twists.

The Kamikaze targeted military targets. The Hashishim targeted influential leaders. The innovation I am speaking of is not just dying in the attack, many soldiers are prepared to do that, but dying in attacking civilians.

 

[Chaos]

The Hashishin were hired assassins. That is, their leaders could be paid to take out specific persons.

However, the common assassin (that´s were the term comes from) thought they were doing this for Islam, and they attacked with the intention of dying a martyr´s death.

There is a distinction between "risking death" and "seeking death".

 

[Mike B.]

BTW,
Doesn't Mycroft have some minor position in the British Government?


(Those who know what I am referencing can answer.)

P.S.
Sorry to derail this thread.
Carry on everyone.

 

[Mr Manifesto]

In the interests of moving the debate on, and for no other reason, we'll let you have the point Mycroft and say that Arafat has the patent on suicide bombing. Are you saying that OBL and co would never have thought of suicide attacks if Arafat hadn't thought of it first?

 

[Mycroft]

In the interests of moving the debate on, and for no other reason, we'll let you have the point Mycroft and say that Arafat has the patent on suicide bombing. Are you saying that OBL and co would never have thought of suicide attacks if Arafat hadn't thought of it first?

I think those teenage Moroccan twin sisters would not have contemplated their atrocity without the examples set before them.

Other terrorists? One can only speculate, but people build on the ideas of their predecessors. The PLO gave us suicide bombers and airline hijackings, it's logical to assume that without those examples OBL may not have thought of putting them together into the World Trade Center/Pentagon attacks.

 

[Mr Manifesto]

I think those teenage Moroccan twin sisters would not have contemplated their atrocity without the examples set before them.

Other terrorists? One can only speculate, but people build on the ideas of their predecessors. The PLO gave us suicide bombers and airline hijackings, it's logical to assume that without those examples OBL may not have thought of putting them together into the World Trade Center/Pentagon attacks.

Boy, what planet are you from?

The WTC attacks have more in common with the Kamekazi raids on US naval ships than the Palestinian suicide bombings. Just admit that you shot your mouth off without thinking and try to claw back a little respect.

 

[Trollbane]

Boy, what planet are you from?

The WTC attacks have more in common with the Kamekazi raids on US naval ships than the Palestinian suicide bombings. Just admit that you shot your mouth off without thinking and try to claw back a little respect.

The only thing in common between Kamikazi raids and WTC attacks is the method of flying a plane into things. On the other hand it has a lot more common with suicide bombing in the form of motivation factor (kill the infidels) and target selection (civilians) and so on.

 

[Ed]

BTW,
Doesn't Mycroft have some minor position in the British Government?


(Those who know what I am referencing can answer.)

P.S.
Sorry to derail this thread.
Carry on everyone.

Indeed but I believe that he is keeping bees with his brother in retirement now. He must be getting on.

 

[LW]

The Hashishin were hired assassins. That is, their leaders could be paid to take out specific persons.

That is quite a generalization. I'm not completely certain of figures but I seem to remember that there were a total of little over 100 murders mentioned in the "Honor roll" of Assasins. Of those only a few (5-6) were alleged to be murders-for-hire and it is not at all certain that they actually were such. The vast majority were religious murders, mostly aimed against Sunni and moderate Shia Muslims (less than 10 Christian lords were killed by them).

Assasins were hard-core Ismailites (a sect of Shias). The aim of their founder (can't remember his name) was to convert all "heretic" Muslims into Ismailites. His successors continued working for this purpose while they slowly transformed into more conventional regional princes.

 

[Mycroft]

Originally posted by Mr Manifesto
Boy, what planet are you from?

The WTC attacks have more in common with the Kamekazi raids on US naval ships than the Palestinian suicide bombings. Just admit that you shot your mouth off without thinking and try to claw back a little respect.

I don’t feel the need to claw back anything, thank you. If you have something to support your idea that the WTC/Pentagon attacks are more closely related to Kamikaze attacks, you’re welcome to share it.

 

[E.J.Armstrong]

originally posted by Mycroft
I don't know, but over in the West Bank, they have shown the world how poor and disenfranchised muslims can give their empty lives meaning through death and murder.

And that justifies the title of your thread? You may be right you may be wrong however it is normal practice on this site to provide evidence for your claims. Can you supply a definite link between the girls and Arafat or is your claim merely a figment of your imagination and mere supposition?

It is interesting to note that as well as Islamic groups a Jewish sect, the Sicairis, also carried out suicide attacks.

From http://meadev.nic.in/OPn/2001sept/14stm.htm

In the 11th century, two sects, the Jewish Sicairis and the Islamic Hashishiyun were notorious for suicide attacks.

 

[Mycroft]

Originally posted by E.J.Armstrong
And that justifies the title of your thread? You may be right you may be wrong however it is normal practice on this site to provide evidence for your claims. Can you supply a definite link between the girls and Arafat or is your claim merely a figment of your imagination and mere supposition?

I wasn't aware that the title of my thread needed justification or that the link between the Moroccan girls planned suicide murder and the suicide murder tactics of the Palestinian-Arabs needed more than a casual glance to affirm.

Originally posted by E.J.Armstrong
It is interesting to note that as well as Islamic groups a Jewish sect, the Sicairis, also carried out suicide attacks.

Did they target innocent shoppers? If you can show that they did, I will concede the point to you.

 

[E.J.Armstrong]

originally posted by Mycroft
I wasn't aware that the title of my thread needed justification or that the link between the Moroccan girls planned suicide murder and the suicide murder tactics of the Palestinian-Arabs needed more than a casual glance to affirm.

If you don't want to justify your assertions and claims that is entirely up to you. Others may however find that stance unhelpful in assesssing whether or not to believe your claims.

The title of your thread is 'Arafats gift to civilization'(sic). You then go on to post a link to an article, which, interestingly, contains not one mention of Arafat in it.

You may feel that there is a connection and that is your right but without evidence to support your argument (which you refuse to supply - as you are also entitled to do) your title is simple assertion, particularly as a number of other people have pointed out that other groups have engaged in suicide attacks.

The fact that your title is based on mere assertion can be demonstrated by the following quote from http://www.iwar.org.uk/news-archive/2003/09-24-4.htm.
PQUOTE]Robert Pape, a political science professor at the University of Chicago, has compiled a database of all suicide attacks of the past 20 years. "The fact is, the world leader in suicide terrorism, the group that has done more suicide attacks than any other, is the Tamil Tigers in Sri Lanka. This group has done 75 of the 188 attacks in the entire universe. So the connection between Islamic fundamentalism and suicide terrorism is misleading," he says.[/QUOTE]

Again you may be right but based on this evidence it seems clear that your title and attempted connection are simple conjecture and unsupported by the article posted by yourself. In fact, not only does the article not mention Arafat in any way whatsoever but it specifically states that it was the work, not of Arafat, but of Bin Laden which fascinated the girls.

Did they target innocent shoppers? If you can show that they did, I will concede the point to you

Tamil suicide bombers targetted many innocent people in Sri Lanka. With their greater number of attacks they therefore could equally have been the nasty and vicious role model for the girls you cite.

Targetting shoppers is completely and totally wrong, whoever does it and wherever it occurs. Unfortunately, while Hamas and Hizbollah are currently targetting innocent children, Sharon is also targetting untried suspects in a way that guarantees the deaths of innocent children who may be playing or living nearby. All of them have the choice to stop killing innocents and all of them should make that choice.