Merged Apollo "hoax" discussion - continuation thread

[JayUtah]

HAve it your way. I'd suggest that you take it up with Sir Isaac.

As I said, I do this for a living. Sir Isaac and I are on very good professional terms.

I will point out again that most spaceflight is reckoned according to orbital models and trajectories that do not exercise the accelerometers, and that accelerated flight is relatively rare in a spacecraft's mission. Therefore reconcile that with your claims that all guidance and navigation systems must double-integrate the acceleration.

 

[Erock]

For example, X rays are filtered by our atmosphere. Would X-rays leave a mark on stamps? YES THEY WOULD!

X-rays from where? The sun? How exactly do soft x-rays penetrate anything thicker than a tissue paper?

Sounds like more poop to me. Ask your friends/wife/girlfriend/blah blah zzzzzzzz tedious and obvious, under what circumstances stamps would get any radiation of any note whilst inside the Apollo space craft.

 

[JayUtah]

An X-ray source equivalent to that provided by the sun and other electromagnetic emitters...

Other "electromagnetic emitters" such as what?

...that would hit stamps traveling from the earth to the moon during an Apollo emission of course.

And produce what visible or measurable effect? Be specific.

 

[Jrrarglblarg]

An X-ray source equivalent to that provided by the sun and other electromagnetic emitters that would hit stamps traveling from the earth to the moon during an Apollo emission of course.

Can you quantify for us the amount of x-ray emissions that a) are put out by the sun and b) would get through the attenuation of the spacecraft? Then c) what effect x-rays would have on postage stamps? In light of the paucity of your case I would be willing to allow for effects on either printing or glue.

 

[JayUtah]

Am I supposed to be intimidated? distance is acceleration twice integrated.

What does an accelerometer measure in an unaccelerated orbit?

 

[JayUtah]

Am I supposed to be intimidated? distance is acceleration twice integrated.

A state vector is more than just "distance." Do you really expect to convince people here you know what you're talking about?

 

[JayUtah]

Perhaps there would be no telltale findings.

So in other words you have no clue what you're talking about.

 

[Erock]

Perhaps there would be no telltale findings. presumably they have done it with Apollo. I would grant today the missions may well be real. I have no major reason to doubt. Do have some minor ones. No one has done the experiment here on earth. We can ask and maybe even try to do the experiment. that is the thing to do, an actual experiment.

There is no "perhaps" about it. Solar x-rays are as strong as a baby's fart*.

You are as obvious as you are tedious. Do you come from Alabama and do you ride a bike with a banjo on your knee? Doesn't being wrong so often and so badly, ever register with you?





* absent of CME activity

 

[slyjoe]

An X-ray source equivalent to that provided by the sun and other electromagnetic emitters that would hit stamps traveling from the earth to the moon during an Apollo emission of course.

This clinches. Body fluids again.

 

[frenat]

See, I got you thinking. Not sure yet, but looks like team Haleiwa is really on to something.

I want to emphasize this is not an argument for hoax in and of itself. It is an interesting hypothetical though.

We can make a general statement, claim. Objects taken into space for 9 or more days would show signs of being in space due to radiation exposure not incurred were the same stamps left at home here on earth.

the only thing Heiwa is onto is a complete misunderstanding of al physics involved.

 

[threadworm]

If you are going to try and reproduce the alleged effects on stamps you need to reproduce the same conditions.

Put your sheet of stamps in a tin can then leave them outside. Report back.

You could even be really brave and get a hospital to x-ray the tin, see how that works. Oh if only you had access to medical facilities...

 

[tsig]

In all seriousness [gulp], haven't we already heard that about the silver-painted boots in some of the Mercury and/or Gemini publicity photos?

Yes.

 

[SpitfireIX]

the only thing Heiwa is onto is a complete misunderstanding of al physics involved.

You misread what the sock/troll wrote; Haleiwa is a town on the opposite side of Oahu from Honolulu. (I only knew that due to my having seen Tora! Tora! Tora! and having read At Dawn We Slept several times each. Haleiwa was the location of a small US Army Air Force satellite airfield that the Japanese didn't know about, and thus failed to attack.)

 

[Andy_Ross]

If you are going to try and reproduce the alleged effects on stamps you need to reproduce the same conditions.

Put your sheet of stamps in a tin can then leave them outside. Report back.

You could even be really brave and get a hospital to x-ray the tin, see how that works. Oh if only you had access to medical facilities...

I could do it for him. We have several different Dental Xray systems we use for training and testing. We can turn them right down low if we need to. Not as low as he would need to simulate Cisluner space though.

 

[cjameshuff]

You misread what the sock/troll wrote; Haleiwa is a town on the opposite side of Oahu from Honolulu.

Right, from the latest iteration of his "we were just talking about this" scenario: "My friends and I came up with a new conspiracy angle on Apollo sitting around the wall at Haleiwa last evening."

I'm really wondering where this idea that stamp gum can be used as a sensitive radiation detector came from. The closest thing I can come up with is the "gum printing" technique which requires mixing with a dichromate salt followed by fairly intense UV exposure, like extended exposure to bright sunlight. Looking around online, it otherwise looks like gum arabic is actually known for tolerance of ionizing radiation (to be specific, gamma radiation at very high doses for sterilization purposes) with little effect.

 

[matt.tansy]

I vaguely remember that all or most Moon landing missions carried stamps authorized by the government but the Apollo 15 guys carried extra to sell for their own profit. Anybody else recall that?

 

[nomuse]

So....."Radiation" is bad for the adhesive gum on the back of postage stamps, eh? Good thing aerospace technology doesn't use adhesives anywhere, right? It is all assembled in the same ways as consumer goods and stuffs...no adhesives there, no sir!

 

[nomuse]

This reminds me a lot of the interminable "The film would have melted!" arguments. Because of course it is perfectly natural to expect a roll of photographic film to melt, catch fire, turn so radioactive it glows, etc., etc....while in a camera held by a far more fragile astronaut.

 

[threadworm]

I vaguely remember that all or most Moon landing missions carried stamps authorized by the government but the Apollo 15 guys carried extra to sell for their own profit. Anybody else recall that?

And lots of other things besides. The issue was not taking stamps, it was taking unauthorised stamps.

http://www.spaceflownartifacts.com/flown_apollo_covers.html

 

[Call Me Crazy But]

What does an accelerometer measure in an unaccelerated orbit?

I am probably going to get shot down on this but here goes. I took 'A Level' physics back in the day (UK exam taken at 18) but I am just a little lost, possibly due to translation. I do not back Honolulufilly and yes I think that P1K is back but I don't quite follow the acceleration argument. I thought that an object in orbit was always under acceleration due to the vectors involved because of gravity. Am I missing part of the argument here or have I just misread a post? For the record I watched the moon landings aged 10 on a tiny mono TV. I believed it then and I believe it now.