AP News: "Let's go, Brandon" is really code for "**** Joe Biden"

[TurkeysGhost]

And we Sir are in violent agreement.

You want a President who walks around making a big showy deal of fighting everyone and getting nothing done.

Biden is getting what little he is getting done because he knows how to play the game and you find that offensive because you want the whole game burned down and rebuilt so you can pretend the progressive-socialist revolution is going to spring out of the ashes.

Perhaps you can understand the problem of taking one step forward for every 10 steps back.

The right wing is galloping the overton window to the right, and at best the opposition is slowing things down a bit here and there, but with little chance of actually reversing an authoritarian drift.

The liberal establishment is making it quite clear that there are certain sacred cows that they will sooner protect above all else, even if that means surrendering to the rabid right. But hey, at least they are going to be very, very polite about it.

 

[JoeMorgue]

Perhaps you can understand the problem of taking one step forward for every 10 steps back.

The right wing is galloping the overton window to the right, and at best the opposition is slowing things down a bit here and there, but with little chance of actually reversing an authoritarian drift.

The liberal establishment is making it quite clear that there are certain sacred cows that they will sooner protect above all else, even if that means surrendering to the rabid right. But hey, at least they are going to be very, very polite about it.

People who see something worth saving in the system are not always the enemy.

 

[TurkeysGhost]

People who see something worth saving in the system are not always the enemy.

I can't think of anything more risky for the system as we know it than liberal inaction. If they refuse to adapt the system as it exists now, it'll simply shatter under the strain being placed on it.

There is definitely a growing and powerful political faction in this country that is promising to radically depart from our current system, and it ain't Social Democrats.

This has drifted very far afield from people insulting Joe Biden through idiotic slogans. Happy to continue this elsewhere if some kind mod will whisk us away.

 

[JoeMorgue]

I can't think of anything more risky for the system as we know it than liberal inaction.

Then change your definition of "inaction" to mean something more adult and mature than "Not being constantly combative to prove how ideologically pure I am."

Again your problem isn't that Biden doesn't do enough, it's that he doesn't spend his days calling everyone a chud.

 

[TurkeysGhost]

Then change your definition of "inaction" to mean something more adult and mature than "Not being constantly combative to prove how ideologically pure I am."

Again your problem isn't that Biden doesn't do enough, it's that he doesn't spend his days calling everyone a chud.

Come on now, is this the part where we pretend the "bully pulpit" isn't an extremely powerful tool that Biden is largely not using?

I don't think Biden needs to pick fights with CHUDs, but maybe it would help if he publicly explored why the so called Democrat majority can't pass their own agenda items. That would be a real problem though, because nobody in the party really wants to dig that deep into how powerful interests routinely exert influence to stop obviously popular policy from becoming law.


I mean, how exactly does Sinema go from being a crunchy progressive to a completely owned creature of the lobbying industry in such a short time? Biden could visit a picket line and ask why insanely rich corporations can afford to pay their workers more than a starvation wage. These people are absolutely ripe to be bodyslammed in the largest spotlight in the world, but that would require someone to actually have a real problem with these kinds of shady influence peddlers.

There is a huge wellspring of anti-elite sentiments in this country that the Democrats could easily tap into, but they'd sooner see the phony-socialism of the far-right win rather than alienate their rich friends and benefactors. It would probably involve being pretty rude too.

 

[JoeMorgue]

Come on now, is this the part where we pretend the "bully pulpit" isn't an extremely powerful tool that Biden is largely not using?

It is when you're an obstructionist trying to keep other people from doing something like McConnell or Sinema.

Less so when you have actually goals beyond political wins.

 

[Suddenly]

Then change your definition of "inaction" to mean something more adult and mature than "Not being constantly combative to prove how ideologically pure I am."

Again your problem isn't that Biden doesn't do enough, it's that he doesn't spend his days calling everyone a chud.

It's that if Biden can't use the power and prestige of his office to bring Joe Manchin to heel on a comprehensive social spending bill that is his party's main purpose and hope, then he's a dangerous incompetent and he's just warming a seat for whatever horror story Republican comes next.

That about encapsulates it. His public behavior is at most a proxy issue. He's soft.

 

[bruto]

While I disagree with the prestige on a majority of issues, I am quite ready to believe, given his history, that he is not a racist or a misogynist and objected to Obama and Clinton on purely political grounds. I do not think the same of many others. The truther crap, for example, was widespread, and shamefully racist and stupid, and much of the concentrated anti-Clinton industry little better, but I think it a fatal mistake, as well as a lame imitation of common right-wing strategies, to presume that opposition must rely on some misdeed or flaw of character.

There are plenty of people who think badly of Biden and even despise him, simply because they believe certain things about how we should be governed. I don't entirely agree, and I think many who should know better are swept up in trends they will some day regret, but I think we can be sure never to prevail against them by calling names.

 

[TurkeysGhost]

While I disagree with the prestige on a majority of issues, I am quite ready to believe, given his history, that he is not a racist or a misogynist and objected to Obama and Clinton on purely political grounds. I do not think the same of many others. The truther crap, for example, was widespread, and shamefully racist and stupid, and much of the concentrated anti-Clinton industry little better, but I think it a fatal mistake, as well as a lame imitation of common right-wing strategies, to presume that opposition must rely on some misdeed or flaw of character.

.

That was exactly my point. The anti-Biden stuff is kinda refreshing in the sense that none of this other obviously bigoted baggage is attached.

They hate Biden because they believe any milquetoat center-right policy is really Maoism or whatever, and they believe all Democrats are secretly soul cooking babies, but the barbs against Biden right now are about as innocuous and politically focused as is really possible for them.

"**** Joe Biden" is far more civilized than the Obama/HRC stuff. Not because of any coming-to-Jesus moment for the right, but because Biden just doesn't really push those particular buttons. Hell, compare it to the stuff they say about Harris, which is all the usual racist and sexist stuff you'd come to expect.

 

[plague311]

Most of the people I've seen bothered by this entire thing weren't upset because it was said to Biden. It's because, as others have said repeatedly, it was said to him on Christmas Eve when he was doing something polite, and had treated the entire family cordially.

I don't see anyone saying, 'OMGERDZ U WUZ MEAN TWO MAH POTUS!'

That's a weird take.

 

[Stacyhs]

Most of the people I've seen bothered by this entire thing weren't upset because it was said to Biden. It's because, as others have said repeatedly, it was said to him on Christmas Eve when he was doing something polite, and had treated the entire family cordially.
I don't see anyone saying, 'OMGERDZ U WUZ MEAN TWO MAH POTUS!'

That's a weird take.

Exactly. Context is all.

 

[Suddenly]

Most of the people I've seen bothered by this entire thing weren't upset because it was said to Biden. It's because, as others have said repeatedly, it was said to him on Christmas Eve when he was doing something polite, and had treated the entire family cordially.

I don't see anyone saying, 'OMGERDZ U WUZ MEAN TWO MAH POTUS!'

That's a weird take.

Yeah. I understand to some degree the unhinged hate for Biden by people who think he's a communist. It's absolutely bonkers, but at least I have context for that madness.

I get how some people might have honest respect for the office and find significant offense based on that. Fine.

Now, a person who had that sort of fanatical love for Joe Biden personally to where they'd get the vapors because someone insulted him? That's incomprehensible to me. What is that demographic? His immediate family doesn't seem that into him.

 

[plague311]

Yeah. I understand to some degree the unhinged hate for Biden by people who think he's a communist. It's absolutely bonkers, but at least I have context for that madness.

I get how some people might have honest respect for the office and find significant offense based on that. Fine.

Now, a person who had that sort of fanatical love for Joe Biden personally to where they'd get the vapors because someone insulted him? That's incomprehensible to me. What is that demographic? His immediate family doesn't seem that into him.

I don't think Biden even wants to run for POTUS again, to be honest. I think that's why he threw out the "if I'm still healthy, I'll give it a shot" spoiler the other day. Which is fine, I'd be interested to see who else runs.

He's done fine, but anyone that worships any POTUS the way the majority of the alt-right worshipped Trump is considered ******* bonkers to me. I can't imagine nut hugging a political figure to that extent...or anyone for that matter.

 

[Stacyhs]

I don't think Biden even wants to run for POTUS again, to be honest. I think that's why he threw out the "if I'm still healthy, I'll give it a shot" spoiler the other day. Which is fine, I'd be interested to see who else runs.

He's done fine, but anyone that worships any POTUS the way the majority of the alt-right worshipped Trump is considered ******* bonkers to me. I can't imagine nut hugging a political figure to that extent...or anyone for that matter.

Agreed. This Cult of Trump is beyond my comprehension.

 

[dirtywick]

Most of the people I've seen bothered by this entire thing weren't upset because it was said to Biden. It's because, as others have said repeatedly, it was said to him on Christmas Eve when he was doing something polite, and had treated the entire family cordially.

I don't see anyone saying, 'OMGERDZ U WUZ MEAN TWO MAH POTUS!'

That's a weird take.

I don't even think too many people are particularly upset. People can calmy think this guy is an idiot who did something lame. This whole edge lord trigger master troll routine people like the caller or the kind of person who pops into internet discussion and throws around the word libtard like it's bothering anyone rely on the idea that they're really making people mad. It's kind of sad to be at that point in life.

Anyway, it is possible to think this guy is a clown and criticize him without being emotionally invested in it.

 

[JoeMorgue]

Trolls always tell themselves that any reaction to them is a "win" because "their in our head." It's part of their "Can't win, can't lose, can't quit the game" strategy.

As if going "Stop being a manchild with the IQ of wallpaper paste" takes emotional energy.

But again in the minority that I think ignoring the trolls is an inherently pro-troll position.

 

[Suddenly]

He's done fine, but anyone that worships any POTUS the way the majority of the alt-right worshipped Trump is considered ******* bonkers to me. I can't imagine nut hugging a political figure to that extent...or anyone for that matter.

That I can grasp. He's a symbol of longstanding populist cultural frustration. He makes the right people mad and that's how that works. Shared hate is way more potent than appealing to noble instincts.

 

[TragicMonkey]

I don't even think too many people are particularly upset. People can calmy think this guy is an idiot who did something lame. This whole edge lord trigger master troll routine people like the caller or the kind of person who pops into internet discussion and throws around the word libtard like it's bothering anyone rely on the idea that they're really making people mad. It's kind of sad to be at that point in life.

Anyway, it is possible to think this guy is a clown and criticize him without being emotionally invested in it.

"And how did you work to effect meaningful change in alignment with your political views, Daddy?"

"Why, son, I said a thing that appears on bumper stickers! Am I a hero? Yes, yes I am."

 

[TurkeysGhost]

The problem with "LOL just ignore the trolls" is they do more and more outrageous things to get attention until they do something you can't ignore, and then you get the "OMG how did we let it get so bad" riot act AND we haven't developed any techniques to deal with them.

There's a reason we're seeing more and more by the book troll tactics in violent extremism.

I don't ignore trolls here because I don't want them shooting up a pizza parlor to save the child sex dungeon or get elected to Congress and chase other Congress members down the hall demanding "a civil debate" about their hateful nonsense.

I put the corpse of a lot of dead people at the feet of the "Oh just ignore the trolls" crowd.

I really doubt the ability of strangers to talk Q nuts and other extremists out of their positions. Is there any evidence that people can get talked out of their deeply invested identities through "facts and logic"? Maybe if you had a pre-existing personal relationship with such a person you might be able to use that as credibility to try to talk someone back from the ideological edge, but total strangers calling Q nuts morons on some forum backwater is anything but effective.

I would agree there's probably a ethical argument to be made that clear-eyed people ought to call BS when they see it, but I have little illusion that this is actually effective.

The corpse is going to be there whether you engage or not. Individually there's nothing you can do about it, and of all the conceivably effective collective action responses to this kind of threat, I don't see how "being an internet skeptic" ranks very highly.

 

[Suddenly]

Ignoring the trolls is fine. The problem is that most of these people aren't trolls.

Trolls are just trying to get a reaction for their own gratification.

Most Trumpers are more akin to the loud racist uncle at Thanksgiving who won't shut up about right wing nonsense. He isn't doing this just to get a rise out of people. He believes this stuff. Silence emboldens them because they see it as affirmation. They are oblivious to the idea that maybe people do not want to engage with them and see silence as tacit agreement.

Not arguing with the latter is a problem.