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Anything into oil

arcticpenguin

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There's an article in the May 2003 issue of Discover magazine about a process for converting pretty much any form of garbage (meat processing waste, used tires, platic bottles, human waste) into oil. According to the article, the new process can do this economically. They claim they will hit $15/barrel in their pilot plant, and better than that when fullscale plants go into production.

The secret, they claimed, was that the 'depolymerization' is done in the presence of water.

This is out of my area of specialty, so I couldn't spot any obvious flaws, but I kept thinking this is too good to be true.

Anyone else read it? It's not up on the Discover magazine web site yet.

If this is true, it has big, big implications both for waste disposal and the energy economy.
 
Yup. It's called "thermal depolymerization".

http://www.changingworldtech.com/news.html
RES ANNOUNCES CONSTRUCTION OF WORLD’S FIRST COMMERCIAL THERMAL DEPOLYMERIZATION PLANT

Carthage, Mo. (July 28, 2001) – Renewable Environmental Solutions LLC (RES) today broke ground on construction of the first commercial- scale Thermal Depolymerization and Chemical Reformer Process (TDP) plant. The TDP process, owned by RES partner Changing World Technologies (CWT), converts low-value, organic materials into oils, gases and carbon using water, pressure and temperature. When completed in spring 2002, the 10,000-square-foot facility will convert 200 tons of low-value organic materials per day into renewable energy and other valuable byproducts.
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http://www.springfieldnews-leader.com/projects/stewardship/turkey120402.html
Dec. 4, 2002
Turkey plant finds high-tech pollution solution
Carthage company will turn poultry waste into products instead of effluent.

By Mike Penprase
News-Leader

Carthage — There appears to be a new solution to leftover turkey: Turn it into 40-weight motor oil.

< snip >

The Thermal Depolymerization Plant, or TDP, is scheduled to start up in January, said Paul Halberstadt of Renewable Environmental Resources, a joint venture of ConAgra and thermal depolymerization developer Changing World Technology. Halberstadt, vice president of technical services, makes regular runs from Michigan to Missouri to oversee plant construction.

< snip >

“The idea for thermal depolymerization has been around for a long time, but we believe our process has perfected it,” Samson said.

“It’s no longer laboratory benchtop,” he said.

< snip >

The plant will mimic how oil is produced naturally by heat and pressure over eons, Halberstadt said.

The difference is the Carthage plant will do the same thing in hours by moving a slurry of wastes and water through a series of tanks that use a variety of heat and pressure combinations to break the organics down, he said.

In the first stage, material is subjected to 750 pounds per square inch of pressure at 500 degrees Fahrenheit, while the second stage uses pressure of 25 to 50 psi at 1,000 degrees.
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So it's been around for a while--Discover magazine is just now getting around to it? Heh, they must be out of the loop. :D
 
The process is well known. If the cost is $15/bbl (I hope they didn't mean $15/gal) they have an economic winner.

Next question: how many bbls/day. The world uses nearly 30,000,000 bbls/day. Lots of chicken poop & meat trimmings, huh?


Anybody heard any recent costs/bbl for shale oil production? Last I noticed it was maybe $50/bbl.
 
No, that's the market price. We can produce it for half that. If people are willing to PAY $50, Hell mend 'em.

I don't doubt we can produce sludge from organic waste. In fact the back of my garage appears to be a test rig of some kind. It's just a matter of training the chickens to use the toilet.

Or maybe not building two ton cars to move two 100kg people at 200kph. Buy a bicycle.
 
Just as well ole Saddam didn't read as widely as you. He might have tried the oil from people trick.:D
 
Soapy Sam said:
Just as well ole Saddam didn't read as widely as you. He might have tried the oil from people trick.:D
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Lousy econ; if he squashed 'em all he'd only get at most a few days extra production, and then back to the "black gold".

Whatta ya think, 1 bbl/human maybe? I doubt it would be that effcient though.
 
But --- energy ----

First thing I did here was make sure the date wasn't April 1.

I have one question:

Where does the energy come from?

If there's a reasonable answer to that one, I'm happy.
 
Re: But --- energy ----

jj said:

Where does the energy come from?
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They use the gas (methane) produced in the reaction for heat. Here's a description of the technology: http://www.changingworldtech.com/techfr.htm

The first step is grinding, second step is the thermal depolymerization. The third step is flash evaporation, which should remove much of the heat from the mixture; the heat and water are recycled back into step 2.

The Discover mag article is still not on-line.
 
Re: Re: But --- energy ----

arcticpenguin said:

They use the gas (methane) produced in the reaction for heat. Here's a description of the technology: http://www.changingworldtech.com/techfr.htm

The first step is grinding, second step is the thermal depolymerization. The third step is flash evaporation, which should remove much of the heat from the mixture; the heat and water are recycled back into step 2.

The Discover mag article is still not on-line.
Click to expand...

Hmm, but if we're moving from less energetic to more energetic molecules ... We use a fair amount of the energy in the original to get the rest up the hill?
 
Re: Re: Re: But --- energy ----

jj said:

Hmm, but if we're moving from less energetic to more energetic molecules ... We use a fair amount of the energy in the original to get the rest up the hill?
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The Discover article didn't have much detail (surprise!). The economics of it is the big question, and I don't know what went into their calculations.
 
The original feedstock is composed of long chain polymers that contain more stored energy than the short chain hydrocarbon polymers in the final product. The energy in the short chains may be less per unit of mass, but it is easier to release.

This setup sounds pretty ideal for use onboard Navy ships. We generate a lot of waste, including an enormous amount of waste food, sewage, plastics, and waste petro products. Imagine placing a small plant on an aircraft carrier and turning most of your waste stream into kerosene for the planes and creating drinking water in the process. All this with a system that once it is up and running, powers itself.
 
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