Any Updates on Mark Basile's Study?

[Oystein]

Is there really any question at this point there is no study actually on-going?

Yes, it surely seems that way.
Rick said he won't answer any more of my questions about Basile. I am trying to get to him by some other route.

 

[DGM]

Yes, it surely seems that way.
Rick said he won't answer any more of my questions about Basile. I am trying to get to him by some other route.

Outside of Ricks claims. Has the existence of a study actually ever been confirmed?

Follow the money on this one "truthers".

 

[Oystein]

I am not sure I understand your question. Mark is a real person, we have him on record, in his own voice, talking about his plans.
There was a status report last August written by Mark on Rick's page., Do you doubt Mark wrote that?
So far, he's been fiddling with his samples by his lonesome self, no labs involved.
And no known progress since last August, as even Rick admitted to me just three weeks ago.

 

[DGM]

I am not sure I understand your question. Mark is a real person, we have him on record, in his own voice, talking about his plans.
There was a status report last August written by Mark on Rick's page., Do you doubt Mark wrote that?
So far, he's been fiddling with his samples by his lonesome self, no labs involved.
And no known progress since last August, as even Rick admitted to me just three weeks ago.

"Talking about his plans".

Outside of Ricks word, is there really any evidence of a study or money available for one?

What exactly is Ricks word worth?

 

[Oystein]

"Talking about his plans".

Outside of Ricks word, is there really any evidence of a study or money available for one?

What exactly is Ricks word worth?

In my first post today, a few posts up from here, I link to a YT that has part of a phone conference recording with Basile from July 2013. In it, Marc mentions that at that point they had about $1500 of the $5000 collected, with some of the money having gone to his own PayPal account, and that he can already start doing a bit with that money.

So there is evidence from Mark that SOME money was there.

 

[Sunstealer]

So he had $1500 and a couple of FTIR tests on samples matching chips a-d would cost $800 max, but he's done nothing and anyway if he was going to start he'd start in the wrong place by looking at meaningless primer samples.

Why pay for an actual test that will tell you exactly what the material is when you can safely do nothing? Laughable.

 

[Oystein]

I am dumping an old link (February 6, 2014) here of a radio talk between JM Talboo and Ziggi Zugam about the Basile study:
http://noliesradio.org/archives/76313

Ziggi is introduced as an economics student.
JM says the goal of $5000 has been reached - although at the time it was already known that Mark really wants $10,000.
Mentions Millette's result ("paint").
Says they hope Basile's study will be published in a peer-reviewed journal.
Ziggi says Basile did not want money from AE911T to stay independent.

At 10:20 JM says that Basile has already tested some pieve of metal from a museum or something for conventional explosives, and that came up negative. JM and Ziggi discuss that the samples they have have been kept under sub-optimal conditions where any explosive residues (nitrates) would likely have deteriorated, and they wonder if it would be possible to get to professionally sampled and stored dust probes via Millette! No indication that they ask Millette, though...

From 16 to 21 minutes, Ziggi character-assassinates Chris Mohr.

Then some talk about Frank Greening, who is described as a former JREF "darling", ignoring that Frank was banned from here years ago. Buuuut that's off-topic to this thread, so I am tuning out.

 

[DGM]

At 10:20 JM says that Basile has already tested some pieve of metal from a museum or something for conventional explosives, and that came up negative. JM and Ziggi discuss that the samples they have have been kept under sub-optimal conditions where any explosive residues (nitrates) would likely have deteriorated,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

Sounds about right. Mark didn't find anything because there had to be something wrong with the sample. If his dust study comes up short, any bet they claim he got the wrong dust (or it was switched in the mail)?

 

[Redwood]

I am dumping an old link (February 6, 2014) here of a radio talk between JM Talboo and Ziggi Zugam about the Basile study:
http://noliesradio.org/archives/76313

Ziggi is introduced as an economics student.
JM says the goal of $5000 has been reached - although at the time it was already known that Mark really wants $10,000.

15 months and nothing? These tests could easily have been done in 15 DAYS with plenty of time for coffee breaks and long lunches! Hmmm...... I wonder what the delay could be about!

 

[Oystein]

Sounds about right. Mark didn't find anything because there had to be something wrong with the sample. If his dust study comes up short, any bet they claim he got the wrong dust (or it was switched in the mail)?

Two comments on that:
1. Mark has one sample that he got from Janette McKinley, who also provided Jones and Harrit with their "Sample 1", but Mark got it in a separate delivery directly from McKinley (I probable spell her name incorrectly now; too lazy to check). His other samples are from different sources (different from Jones').

2. One thing that constantly has me wondering: previous dust studies, especially the one by RJ Lee, have established defining characteristics of the WTC dust - qualitatively and quantitatively identified defining markers. Why is there no proposal anywhere to apply these criteria to Basile's or Harrit's sampled to prove they actually have genuine dust from the WTC catastrophe?

15 months and nothing? These tests could easily have been done in 15 DAYS with plenty of time for coffee breaks and long lunches! Hmmm...... I wonder what the delay could be about!

Remember that last August, half a year after the JM+Ziggi talk, Basile's last status report said that he was then in the processes of isolating suitable chip specimens from the dust for testing, and that he then hoped to have finished that task by September:

Five samples have been screened completely. Two are still ongoing and expected to be completed in about a month.

The strange part of his proposal, as per status report, was that he intended to first burn the chips to test for "reactivity" and then select the best candidates to send to labs...

 

[DGM]

.....the months and years tick by............still no "truthers" wonder where their money went.....

 

[Oystein]

I keep asking Rick Shaddock. A few days ago he wrote that he would perhaps respond to me on a " truly open forum, which allows me to respond" and invited me to the forum of the Skeptiko Community - which is about parapsychology, "consciousness science", near-death experiences etc.

So I jumped right in and posted:
http://www.skeptiko-forum.com/threads/9-11-discussion-thread.1443/page-68#post-69191

...You wrote me on May 7th that you had called Mark Basile that day, and that he would prepare a written report within a couple of days.
That was 4 weeks ago.

Well, do you have a written report from Mark?...

... Mark said that he was about to finish the task of selecting suitable red-gray chips from his samples and would be ready to send them off to labs shortly. He promised he would publish monthly update reports once money is being spent.

Since then, silence from Mark. He cannot be reached.
...
So, TruthMakesPeace: Is there any progress with Mark's study?

To which Rick responded:

Mark will not respond to ithose who are uninformed about main stream news about 9/11. www.911Skeptics.org/news Your emails go to his spam folder, never to be read.
...
Mark is working on the project and is in monthly contact about the progress being made for a study that can be published.
The independent lab or labs or details will not be disclosed until the tests are complete and the study is being prepared fo publication.
ISF (used to be JREF, disowned by James Randi) may try to sabotage the experiment by contacting the lab.

I read that as a "no"

 

[Redwood]

I keep asking Rick Shaddock. A few days ago he wrote that he would perhaps respond to me on a " truly open forum, which allows me to respond" and invited me to the forum of the Skeptiko Community - which is about parapsychology, "consciousness science", near-death experiences etc.

So I jumped right in and posted:
http://www.skeptiko-forum.com/threads/9-11-discussion-thread.1443/page-68#post-69191


To which Rick responded:



I read that as a "no"

Give me a thousand bucks or so, Troofies, and I'll have a preliminary report within a week!

 

[Oystein]

Give me a thousand bucks or so, Troofies, and I'll have a preliminary report within a week!

Hehe
I even told Rick it would be totally fine by me if the progress report reported no progress, if Mark for example said that he has a beautiful wife and wonderful kids and absolutely better things to do!

 

[Sunstealer]

It's strange how truthers will make the utmost of demands against debunkers, but when it comes to their own people they give them a free pass. They'll happily pay the money and then wait years for nothing to happen. To me it looks like people have been scammed.

You could do the work required in a week. It takes no time to separate red/gray chips using a magnet and a magnifying glass. It would take a couple of hours maximum to make sure you had red/gray chips that had the same characteristics as chips a-d if you had access to a SEM - not difficult to organise.

You could then send a chip each to 4 independent labs for $500 a time and get back 4 reports.

It's laughable that they have taken years just to try and select a couple of chips.

Of course we know why they are prevaricating, it's because they can't replicate thermite with the chips they have and know full well that if they send the chips to an independent lab that the results are going to show the material as paint which will leave a lot of egg on a lot of faces.

My favourite bit was this:

The independent lab or labs or details will not be disclosed until the tests are complete and the study is being prepared fo publication.
ISF (used to be JREF, disowned by James Randi) may try to sabotage the experiment by contacting the lab.

Sabotage! It just goes to show what paranoid lunatics these people are. How can you sabotage an independent lab that has been paid for work? Do they not understand that when a contract is agreed that the lab is performing confidential work for a client and that no lab would ever discuss any work with a 3rd party.

No-one cares which lab performs the work as long as it's independent and the material is characterised. The report for characterisation won't come to more than 3 sheets of A4 if that. It's such a basic request.

These people are so incompetent and ignorant, they simply don't have a clue.

 

[grmcdorman]

...

The independent lab or labs or details will not be disclosed until the tests are complete and the study is being prepared fo publication.
ISF (used to be JREF, disowned by James Randi) may try to sabotage the experiment by contacting the lab.

Sabotage! It just goes to show what paranoid lunatics these people are.

...

Standard out, I think. If the results don't agree with your pre-determined conclusion: Sabotage! (Didn't the one other 'truther' researcher who got the dust take that out?)

 

[pgimeno]

I can't help comparing the silence and secrecy of Basile with the full transparency that Chris Mohr always had with the donors (and everyone else), when he hired Millette.

Makes one wonder if Basile has something to hide.

 

[WilliamSeger]

Makes one wonder if Basile has something to hide.

It does seem that the most probable explanations for this (apparent) inaction are that either he has something to hide or something to fear. I suspect that he may have some preliminary results that he doesn't want to release, but I suppose it's possible that he simply started thinking about what the Harrit critics were saying and is now reluctant to proceed.

 

[Oystein]

Standard out, I think. If the results don't agree with your pre-determined conclusion: Sabotage! (Didn't the one other 'truther' researcher who got the dust take that out?)

Yes. Frédérick Henry-Couannier, when he found that his "thermitic" chips weren't "active" in the way that Harrit et al claimed, suspected that they may have been intercepted in the mail and been tampered with.

 

[BasqueArch]

It does seem that the most probable explanations for this (apparent) inaction are that either he has something to hide or something to fear. I suspect that he may have some preliminary results that he doesn't want to release, but I suppose it's possible that he simply started thinking about what the Harrit critics were saying and is now reluctant to proceed.

In science publishing a paper and not releasing also contradicting experimental results is considered fraudulent, unethical. That's what those people did in the original thermite paper.

Basile should publish/post the results to date and face it. That's why Jones left that fantasy for another, to avoid having to admit he was wrong. It's deceitful and irresponsible to not correct known mistakes that continue to fool others.