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Any follow-up on Steven Jones' thermite retreat?

bardamu said:
These people have suggested a simplified model:

http://www.sharpprintinginc.com/911..._op=view_page&PAGE_id=16&MMN_position=177:177
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Even if you are a truther don't you think that this article is false and misleading?

32 bombs, every 3 floors in two 110 story towers . Thats over 2,000 bombs..plus bombs in the basement, bombs in the lobby and bombs during the evacuation. Assumes the bombers were nice people and did not bomb any of the evacuation staircases.

And he reckons that the bombs were placed in 4 days before the attack, because they had explosive sniffing dogs before that. So he has no real idea about demolition and placing explosives and that you need to remove the fire protection, weld on the restraints, and they often cut the steel to pre-weaken it. It would be simpler if they had just ground off the welds.!

What i find deliberately misleading is that he draws his bomb placing diagram on the Level 32 plan where there are lots of elevators rather than impact levels where there are a lot less. At the impact level in WTC1 there were only11 accessible columns in 15 shafts, while in WTC 2 there were 14 accessible columns from 26 shafts.

I have heard Gage say that they accessed the other columns through the ceiling void. Can you imagine anything as crazy, and nobody noticed any dust, or damage to the lightweight ceiling.And what does Gage say they used, several hunderd tons on Nano Thermite.

The author also assumes the explosives were fireproof and survived the initial impact, the explosions and the fires. Then the demo team waited until most people escaped and without warning demolished the South Tower which was the second tower to be hit, using silent, flashless nanothermite explosives at the impact level.

And then none of the thousands of engineers, police, fireman who worked on the search and recovery noticed anything unusual about the ends of the interior columns at the splice joint locations. Nor does any photograph indicate explosives... and please dont show me the flame cut columns near the base level.

You have to laugh at how sad and mad this is.
 
Bluesky said:
Even if you are a truther don't you think that this article is false and misleading?

32 bombs, every 3 floors in two 110 story towers . Thats over 2,000 bombs..plus bombs in the basement, bombs in the lobby and bombs during the evacuation. Assumes the bombers were nice people and did not bomb any of the evacuation staircases.

And he reckons that the bombs were placed in 4 days before the attack, because they had explosive sniffing dogs before that. So he has no real idea about demolition and placing explosives and that you need to remove the fire protection, weld on the restraints, and they often cut the steel to pre-weaken it. It would be simpler if they had just ground off the welds.!

What i find deliberately misleading is that he draws his bomb placing diagram on the Level 32 plan where there are lots of elevators rather than impact levels where there are a lot less. At the impact level in WTC1 there were only11 accessible columns in 15 shafts, while in WTC 2 there were 14 accessible columns from 26 shafts.

I have heard Gage say that they accessed the other columns through the ceiling void. Can you imagine anything as crazy, and nobody noticed any dust, or damage to the lightweight ceiling.And what does Gage say they used, several hunderd tons on Nano Thermite.

The author also assumes the explosives were fireproof and survived the initial impact, the explosions and the fires. Then the demo team waited until most people escaped and without warning demolished the South Tower which was the second tower to be hit, using silent, flashless nanothermite explosives at the impact level.

And then none of the thousands of engineers, police, fireman who worked on the search and recovery noticed anything unusual about the ends of the interior columns at the splice joint locations. Nor does any photograph indicate explosives... and please dont show me the flame cut columns near the base level.

You have to laugh at how sad and mad this is.
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Then there's this:

"PHASE 2: "COLLAPSE” INITIATION. Sequences of attacks right around where the airplanes hit to "create the illusion" that the towers gave right where the airplanes hit"


How do you know ahead of time where the planes will hit?
 
tsig said:
Then there's this:

"PHASE 2: "COLLAPSE” INITIATION. Sequences of attacks right around where the airplanes hit to "create the illusion" that the towers gave right where the airplanes hit"


How do you know ahead of time where the planes will hit?
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Seems like most Truthers want to be prophets like Nostradamus!
 
CHF said:
I can't even begin to guess what the point of a thermite FUSE would be.

Has there been any follow-up on this hilariously stupid retreat from thermite demolitions?

I'm not aware of Jones presenting this new suggestion to his band of hopelessly gullible followers.

Truthers would perhaps be distressed to learn that all the problems they thought they'd side-stepped with thermite are back along with a whole host of others.

Such as: if you're going to use explosives anyway then why bother with thermite???
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This was posted at 9/11 blogger a while back.

Steven Jones said:
A number of FG’s straw-man arguments were also identified and dispelled. On May 11, 2009, I wrote to FG: “Nor is your conflation of "thermate" with "nanothermite" valid. Nor did I EVER write or say that thermate alone would suffice to bring down the Towers, but rather wrote that explosives would be needed (in addition).”

During the discussion, I briefly expressed my hypothesis that nanothermite served as an igniting agent, as in the “super-thermite matches” described in our paper, to ignite more conventional explosives such as C4 or HMX, in the destruction of the WTC buildings. Thermate (sulfur plus thermite and possibly the form thermate-TH-3) was ALSO in evidence and probably intended to weaken critical steel members (e.g., residue/ material flowing with orange glow from the So. Tower just minutes before its collapse and the sulfidation of WTC steel reported in the FEMA report but ignored by NIST). Thermite incendiary without sulfur is not in evidence at the WTC to date.

But sulfur is NOT needed for the function of explosive nanothermite and would not be expected to appear in the red/gray chips. Reliable and robust super- or nano-thermite ignitors would each be ignited by an electrical pulse generated by a radio-receiver, in turn igniting shaped charges to cut steel, the sequence beginning near where the planes went in for the Towers and computer-controlled, so that the destruction wave would proceed via explosives in top-down sequence. Thus, this was no conventional (bottom first) controlled demolition, agreeing on this with B. Blanchard, but I never claimed it was! (For the Towers; the demolition of WTC7 appears to be bottom-first and more conventional.) The top-down destruction of the Towers in this model would doubtless require more explosives than would a conventional controlled demolition. Thermate (an incendiary, not an explosive) is not the “be all and end all” explanation (FG’s terminology), nor did I ever claim it was – I have consistently pointed to evidence that explosives were used in bringing down the Towers.
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I have no idea how thermite could ignite C4 or RDX. You need an electric charge to ignite those explosives, thermite would render them sterile. In fact, incendiaries are used to destroy land mines.
 
During the discussion, I briefly expressed my hypothesis that nanothermite served as an igniting agent, as in the “super-thermite matches” described in our paper, to ignite more conventional explosives such as C4 or HMX, in the destruction of the WTC buildings.
Click to expand...

Steven Jones is not serious is he? C-4 explosives! Does he realize that if he rigged all 3 Towers with C-4 they'd flatten all of Lower Manhatten?

SJ is a real joke!
 
I have read some of the discussion linked to at the 9/11 forum and was wondering...

Does anyone know of a link where
metamars said:
Mackey calculated that a 20 micron thermite layer, acting on a 6.35 mm thick column, would give a 24 deg increase in temp
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I'm curious to see how Ryan came to 24 degrees....
 
grandthefttoaster said:
ok
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From the link in that 911blogger piece... Metamars has posted Greening and Jones' correspondence, and Jones says C4 and HMX could have been detonated by thermite.

Some quotes from Jones:

From Professor Jones:

Frank,

You wrote: "And neither can anyone explain how such an unconventional material was used in the Twin Towers or indeed elsewhere in the WTC Complex."

Ah -- but supposing small fragments of C4 were found in the WTC dust (without taggant, to make it "unconventional") -- would you still insist that no one "can explain HOW such an unconventional material was used in the Twin Towers"?

I await your answer.

Regards,
Steve
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4. I do not know why "nanothermite ignitors" "makes no sense at all!" as you claim. Why can not super-thermite matches (also called ignitors) be used, for example, to set off conventional demolition explosives such as C4 or HMX as suggested in the paper? Indeed, why is not this an answer to your question of "How" which you incorrectly say "you all dodge the question: How was your (alleged) nanothermite actually used? " (Greening, email earlier today.) Have you not read in the paper about super-thermite matches? This is one hypothesis for How it was used in part, and I think just as good as your AP-in-insulation hypothesis (especially since we have evidence for superthermite while there is no published evidence for AP).
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Note he uses "super-thermite" and "nano-thermite" interchangeably. :oldroll:

ETA: Oops, I see you've retracted your question, grandthefttoaster.
 
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haha... Steven Jones talking about C4 and how the nano thermite acted as fuses and that it would still require more explosives than normal demolitions just keep digging himself in that grave Richard Gage fell in ages ago.
 
Truthers seem to get their understanding of explosions from TV and movies, where the slowly-expanding incendiaries can easily be outrun by the heroes. In reality, true explosions are quite a bit more energetic, though not as cinematic.
 
This photo seems apt here

gallagher.jpg
 
newton3376 said:
I have read some of the discussion linked to at the 9/11 forum and was wondering...

Does anyone know of a link where

I'm curious to see how Ryan came to 24 degrees....
Click to expand...

Yeah, since my estimate is considerably lower.

7.8 = density of steel (g/cm3) (approx)
100 = area of steel (cm2) (arbitrary number)
6.35 = thickness of steel (cm)
635 = Volume of steel (cm3)
4953 = mass of steel (g)
4.953 = mass of steel (kg)
460 = Specific heat of steel j/kg-C (approx)
2278.38 = joules required to heat 4.9 kg of steel 1C

5.242 = Density of iron oxide (g/cm3) (I'm ignoring the density of the Al to assume a worst case number)
100 = area of iron oxide (cm2)
0.002 = thickness of 20 microns of FeO (cm)
0.2 = volume of FeO (cm3)
1.0484 = Mass of FeO (g)
0.0010484 = Mass of FeO (Kg) (paint film)

4.00 = energy density of thermite (MJ/Kg) (from wiki)
4000000 = energy density of thermite (J/Kg)

4193.6 = Potential Energy of our paint film (j)

2278.38 = joules required to heat 4.9 kg of steel 1C (as calculated above)

1.84 = Temperature rise (C)

maybe my math is wrong.
 
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UNLoVedRebel said:
I have no idea how thermite could ignite C4 or RDX. You need an electric charge to ignite those explosives, thermite would render them sterile. In fact, incendiaries are used to destroy land mines.
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It was probably Nano-C4 or RDXate. Those are different and magical, you know?
 
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