Anti-vaccine woo at its finest

[Deetee]

Courtesy of the JABS forum, which I have been amusing myself by reading of late, comes a link to this web site.

It was cited by "Truthseker" (a whackjob if I ever saw one) as evidence for a "measured comparison between vaccinated and unvaccinated children". I kid you not.

From the website: (bold as is in the original text)

Typical characteristics of unvaccinated children
In the Hollywood-style fictitious world painted by vaccine pushers, unvaccinated children are sick and dying left right and centre from these diseases. However in the real world, the opposite is so much the case that parents who do not vaccinate are constantly being asked by other parents, on seeing their children, what they “do” to them that makes them so healthy. Their response (usually just thought, not spoken) is that it is not so much what they DO, but what they DON’T DO!
These children have a brightness, vitality, happiness and alertness about them that is missing these days in most children. You can see the difference just from their eyes.

These children very rarely fall ill – it’s unusual for them to even come down with a cold. They have been found to have antibodies to childhood diseases (showing past natural exposure and hence life-long immunity) without ever having fallen ill with them and if and when they do succumb to childhood diseases (as they will occasionally) they contract them acutely, with all the proper, beneficial (healing, or cleansing) symptoms, such as the rash in measles, and get over them easily and quickly.

Another noticeable aspect of unvaccinated children is the stability in their behaviour, with freedom from various imbalances affecting brain function including those highly wayward blood sugar levels that make so many vaccinated children run around uncontrollably one minute and then be over-tired and irritable the next.

Parents also often notice that their unvaccinated children learn noticeably faster than their vaccinated older siblings and/or peers. This makes hardly surprising the observation in the U.S., from college entrance examinations, that the IQ of children has been gradually declining, starting from the time of those children born around 1946, which decline of course has been in parallel with increased intensification of vaccination.

The reality is that it is natural for children to be healthy. In other words, if the laws of Mother Nature are followed closely enough, excellent health will follow, and this is clearly born out in unvaccinated children. Follow Her laws, and you too can have children with a spirit that will attract attention and positive comments from others, particularly since vaccinating parents are now being told that it is normal for their children to be suffering recurring infections (even up to 2 per month!) and behavioural problems.

So here is the scientific evidence that vaccination is evil.
Don't pretend you didn't know, or that I haven't told you.

 

[DRBUZZ0]

Yeah, the whole thing about vaccines that the idiots who push anti-vaccine bull is that they claim vaccinated kids are healthy. Of course, this is generally true, but its like saying "Only idiots bother having insurance or wearing their seatbelt. Hell, I drove home at 100 miles an hour the other night with neither and I didn't get killed. And I know another guy he drives home drunk every Saturday night and he ain't dead yet... least not last I heard"

 

[Fnord]

Vaccines are great once their efficacy has been proven.

The flu vaccine? It gave me the flu.

Tell me how I could have otherwise caught the flu, when the ship I was on had already been at sea for three weeks when the vaccine was helo'ed in (vertrep - no landing, no crew transfer), and out if the entire crew who received the vaccine within the next few days, I was the only one who came down with the full set of symptoms?

No, not "flu-like symptoms" but the whole shebang! At least, that's what the flight surgeon with thirty years as a medical doctor told me.

Body aches – It hurt to move, hurt to not move.
Cough – Nearly incessant, were in not for codeine.
Diarrhea and vomiting – Let’s not go there.
Fever – 103° for two days, spiked at 105°
Headache – Just kill me.
Runny or stuffy nose – Yes.
Sore throat – Couldn’t speak.
Tiredness – Not tired enough, thanks again for the codeine.

I was on I.V.’s for three days, and lost ten pounds that week. Our port-of-call was delayed ten days, until I got over the flu and the rest of the crew got over their "flu-like symptoms."

Since the flu vaccine gave me the flu, I've not had the flu again. But then, I've not had another flu shot, either.

 

[robinson]

Interesting. I found the survey linked to from Age of Autism as well. I think they put those crackpots in their place.

Dear Age of Autism: So what if you crackpots have turned up another survey (CLICK HERE) strongly pointing to an association between vaccines and autism? So what, because we've already seen a bunch of so-called studies like that, and they don't mean a darn thing. Even if a full-scale study of the autism rate in vaccinated-versus-unvaccinated kids has never been done, this case is closed. We already told you so.

First of all, this so-called survey was done by the Dutch Association for Conscientious Vaccination, a questionable crowd made up of doctors, parents and therapists "among others" -- and who might those secret unnamed "others" be? We can only guess -- whose stated aim is "freedom of choice for parents when it comes to vaccinating their children, based on honest, comprehensive and independent information. We view the current 'one size fits all' vaccination policy with great concern. The NVKP is therefore urging the adoption of more thorough independent research by representatives from different disciplines."

Ha! Clearly a foreign cabal of know-nothings.

Then -- get this: "The NVKP survey was conducted in the Netherlands in the latter half of 2004 with the parents of 635 children, and involved both members and non-members of the NVKP. The survey was geographically distributed over the entire country. ... We asked the parents to fill in a questionnaire with questions about the health of their child or children."

Let's get this straight. These people asked PARENTS about the health of their children? We've seen this gambit before -- most recently when Generation Rescue hired a so-called "respected" phone survey firm to ask parents whether their kids were vaccinated or not vaccinated, and whether those same kids had been diagnosed with autism or not. CLEARLY a trick question, and the "fact" that vaccinated kids had autism by more than two to one -- a so-called statistically significant finding -- must be dismissed out of hand.

So the "fact" (so-called) that these Netherlands results are even worse -- that EIGHT of the fully vaccinated kids had autism and NONE of the never-vaccinated kids had autism -- is equally laughable. So are the findings in most every category of better health outcomes for the never-vaccinated versus the fully vaccinated.

At some point, this demented data-gathering has got to stop. First came the totally meaningless reports that there seemed to be fewer cases of autism among the Amish. Even the reporter who kept writing about that SAID it wasn't scientific, yet here comes U.S. Rep. Carolyn Maloney of New York introducing legislation to force federal health officials to do just such a study. Who is Congress to tell federal officials to do anything?

Then came the homeschooled -- that nutty Dr. Jeff Bradstreet said he had never seen autism in never-vaccinated homeschooled kids and that a study in that group would be worth doing. Why, he was almost laughed off the podium. What would that tell us besides stuff we don't need to know about homeschooled kids? They are so very different from the rest of us they might as well be aliens.

And then there was Homefirst in Chicago, the medical practice that has thousands of never-vaccinated kids, and no autism and no asthma.

Who appointed these so-called medical doctors to diagnosis and report children's health conditions? Those kids must be strange, too. Very strange.

Heck, unless and until a real scientific study on vaccinated-versus-unvaccinated American kids is conducted, there will never be any evidence..

http://www.ageofautism.com/2008/01/pay-no-attentio.html

More at link. Wear your tinfoil hat.

 

[DRBUZZ0]

the flu vaccine is not 100% effective because it only protects against one strain. There are also literally dozens (if not hundreds) of viruses and conditions which cause all the above symptoms.

There is a small portion of the population that may react to the flu vaccine with mild fever or soreness at the site of injection but only for a day or so. Two days at the most.

Or you may have already been infected with the flu. Or maybe the vaccine was defective. It's very rare, but it has happened.

 

[Skeptic Guy]

Vaccines are great once their efficacy has been proven.

The flu vaccine? It gave me the flu.

Tell me how I could have otherwise caught the flu, when the ship I was on had already been at sea for three weeks when the vaccine was helo'ed in (vertrep - no landing, no crew transfer), and out if the entire crew who received the vaccine within the next few days, I was the only one who came down with the full set of symptoms?

No, not "flu-like symptoms" but the whole shebang! At least, that's what the flight surgeon with thirty years as a medical doctor told me.

Body aches – It hurt to move, hurt to not move.
Cough – Nearly incessant, were in not for codeine.
Diarrhea and vomiting – Let’s not go there.
Fever – 103° for two days, spiked at 105°
Headache – Just kill me.
Runny or stuffy nose – Yes.
Sore throat – Couldn’t speak.
Tiredness – Not tired enough, thanks again for the codeine.

I was on I.V.’s for three days, and lost ten pounds that week. Our port-of-call was delayed ten days, until I got over the flu and the rest of the crew got over their "flu-like symptoms."

Since the flu vaccine gave me the flu, I've not had the flu again. But then, I've not had another flu shot, either.

You're right! The whole flu vaccination concept is now thrown into doubt.

It's an interesting anecdote, and I'm sorry you were so ill, but it does nothing prove the (non)efficacy of the flu vacination.

 

[Fnord]

You're right! The whole flu vaccination concept is now thrown into doubt.

Sarcasm, right?

It's an interesting anecdote, and I'm sorry you were so ill, but it does nothing prove the (non)efficacy of the flu vacination.

That's true. But whenever someone says that vaccinations do not cause problems (like the disease they're supposed to prevent, autism, or whatever), I have my doubts.

But then, I've not had the flu since that time (early 1990's). Either the flu vaccine that gave me the flu also gave me some hard-core resistance to a variety of flu strains, or I've been very lucky.

And I don't believe in luck.

 

[Ivor the Engineer]

Seems the AAP is planning on fighting dirty:

http://www.ageofautism.com/2008/02/aap-wags-the-do.html#more

From: Susan Martin
Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2008 2:29 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: parent spokespersons

Hello,

As part of our ongoing response to media stories regarding autism and vaccines, the AAP communications department is compiling a list of parents who support the AAP and are available for interviews. We are looking for two types of parents who could serve as spokespersons:

Parents of children with autism spectrum disorders who support immunization and who do not believe there is any link between their child’s vaccines and his or her autism.

Parents of children who suffered a vaccine-preventable illness. This could be a parent who declined immunization, whose child became ill before a vaccine was available, or whose child was ineligible for immunization.

We are asking for your help identifying parents who would be good spokespersons. They do not need to be expert public speakers. They just need to be open with their story and interested in speaking out on the issue. We will contact candidates in advance to conduct pre-interviews, to offer guidance on talking to reporters and to obtain a signed waiver giving us permission to release their name.

If a parent were placed on our list, we would offer their name and contact information to select media. We hope to build a list of parents from a wide range of geographical areas.

As the Jenny McCarthy and “Eli Stone” stories illustrate, this issue is likely to recur in the national and local media. The AAP is committed to doing all we can to counter such erroneous reports with factual information supported by scientific evidence and AAP recommendations.

The anti-vaccine groups often have emotional family stories on their side. The ability to offer a reporter an interview with a similarly compelling parent who is sympathetic to the AAP’s goals is a powerful tool for our media relations program.

Please contact me if you have any questions or to suggest a parent to interview.

Thank you,

Susan Stevens Martin
Director, Division of Media Relations
American Academy of Pediatrics
847.434.7131

 

[Deetee]

The Generation Rescue questionnaire results which "show" vaccinated kids have more neurological problems than unvaccinated kids.

The takedowns of the study:

Orac's respectful insolence
Prometheus and a photon in the darkness

 

[Sickly Crypsis]

An overall distrust of doctors and of western medicine seems to be why these studies get so much attention, people who didn't trust them before see these little nuggets of "evidence" which validate their paranoia and their eyes light up, and before you know they're (metaphorically) running about stapling it to peoples foreheads (or maybe not metaphorically?) I mean sure, there are some doctors that the "big evil" pharmaceutical companys have gotten to and they prescribe their medications but to abandon the whole institution because of a few bad apples? Flim shaw.

If vaccines are said to be harmful, which ones? Aren't they inoculating against specific viruses, thus be made of completely different substances?
Maybe some will prove to have negative side effects, but to dismiss a whole branch of medicine with one stroke of the wizards sleeve seems a little silly.

 

[DRBUZZ0]

I find these baseless attacks on vaccines to be especially enraging. Vaccines are the quintessential aspect of science which makes life better. People can accuse science of bring nuclear weapons, pollution, a more complicated life and so on. Much as I despute this, I think that the one example of good science which is the most potent is vaccines.

Vaccines save lives and more importantly they prevent suffering of those with disease and those around them. They are cheap, easy, economical. They reduce health care burden and are safe and effective. I can't get polio. I don't have to worry about it. There was a time when everyone from the rich to the poor feared being killed or crippled by it. No more. Infectious disease has been reduced dramatically and countless lives saved. It would seem as if magic, if you didn't know how it worked.

These studies are almost always baseless and the risks are tiny compared the benefits. I'd like to see these idiots all die of smallpox or polio. Unfortunately they won't because those diseases are all but unknown now. Small pox is gone and polio is gone in the developed world.

 

[Dymanic]

The flu vaccine? It gave me the flu.

Other than the gastrointestinal symptoms, which are not typical of influenza infection in adults, what you describe does sound like flu ... and maybe a few dozen other things. If you take a good look at how inactivated influenza vaccines are made, you'd be very hard pressed to explain how it could be possible for a viable live virus to emerge from the fragments contained in the vaccine. It would be like hamburger turning back into a cow. I can't tell you what you had, or how you got it, but I can tell you this: if it was flu, you didn't get it from the vax. No way. No how.

 

[Gord_in_Toronto]

Sarcasm, right?



That's true. But whenever someone says that vaccinations do not cause problems (like the disease they're supposed to prevent, autism, or whatever), I have my doubts.

But then, I've not had the flu since that time (early 1990's). Either the flu vaccine that gave me the flu also gave me some hard-core resistance to a variety of flu strains, or I've been very lucky.

And I don't believe in luck.

But surely you acknowledge the existence of chance?

 

[Nucular]

Other than the gastrointestinal symptoms, which are not typical of influenza infection in adults, what you describe does sound like flu ... and maybe a few dozen other things. If you take a good look at how inactivated influenza vaccines are made, you'd be very hard pressed to explain how it could be possible for a viable live virus to emerge from the fragments contained in the vaccine. It would be like hamburger turning back into a cow. I can't tell you what you had, or how you got it, but I can tell you this: if it was flu, you didn't get it from the vax. No way. No how.

Isn't there also a live attenuated version of the influenza vaccine? Probably not very common now, but possibly more so in the early 90s?

 

[Dymanic]

Isn't there also a live attenuated version of the influenza vaccine?

There is, but as it is administered by nasal spray, I felt comfortable with taking "I've not had another flu shot" as an indication that this was not the case with Fnord. I would not regard the notion of serious infection resulting from the attenuated live vaccine as impossible; just very unlikely. That the flu shot causes the flu is one of the most persistent of all urban myths.

 

[Fnord]

{snip} ... I can tell you this: if it was flu, you didn't get it from the vax. No way. No how.

Then how did I get it? Re-read my testimony and tell me how it happened.

But surely you acknowledge the existence of chance?

Of course ... random chance ... either the kind of random genetic accident that caused me to get the flu from an allegedly "killed" virus vaccine, or the kind of random medical error that caused a vial of flu vaccine to not be completely "dead."

If the former, then I'm a mutant (I'd prefer Wolverine's mutation). If the latter, then why did no other crewmember inoculated from the same vial contract the flu?

 

[biostudent]

If the latter, then why did no other crewmember inoculated from the same vial contract the flu?

Doesn't that kind of suggest that you didn't get it from the vaccine? If everyone else got a shot from the same vial that you did and you're the only one who got sick...

 

[Mobyseven]

Vaccines are great once their efficacy has been proven.

The flu vaccine? It gave me the flu.

Tell me how I could have otherwise caught the flu, when the ship I was on had already been at sea for three weeks when the vaccine was helo'ed in (vertrep - no landing, no crew transfer), and out if the entire crew who received the vaccine within the next few days, I was the only one who came down with the full set of symptoms?

No, not "flu-like symptoms" but the whole shebang! At least, that's what the flight surgeon with thirty years as a medical doctor told me.

Body aches – It hurt to move, hurt to not move.
Cough – Nearly incessant, were in not for codeine.
Diarrhea and vomiting – Let’s not go there.
Fever – 103° for two days, spiked at 105°
Headache – Just kill me.
Runny or stuffy nose – Yes.
Sore throat – Couldn’t speak.
Tiredness – Not tired enough, thanks again for the codeine.

I was on I.V.’s for three days, and lost ten pounds that week. Our port-of-call was delayed ten days, until I got over the flu and the rest of the crew got over their "flu-like symptoms."

Since the flu vaccine gave me the flu, I've not had the flu again. But then, I've not had another flu shot, either.

How very unlucky that you caught the flu after having your flu shot. How very unfortunate that you would them commit a well known logical fallacy (post hoc ergo propter hoc) and attribute a causal relationship to the two events.

If you want to know how you came down with the flu, no one here can help you. If you want to know how you could have come down with the flu, there are any number of possible explanations, none of which are 'the flu shot gave it to you'. As another person pointed out, the flu shot giving you the flu is like a hamburger turning into a cow. Ain't gonna happen.

 

[JWideman]

Same thing here - getting the flu shot means getting the flu. No shot, no flu. I realize this is anecdotal, and that the vaccine should be unable to give anyone the flu, but I can't help but wonder just what is going on here?

 

[Mobyseven]

Same thing here - getting the flu shot means getting the flu. No shot, no flu. I realize this is anecdotal, and that the vaccine should be unable to give anyone the flu, but I can't help but wonder just what is going on here?

Inability to grasp statistics and the science behind the vaccine, coupled with the human tendency to ascribe cause and effect to unrelated events resulting in the post hoc ergo propter hoc logical fallacy.

It's mundane. It's boring. It sadly lacks any sinister element. It's also the truth.