Anti-English discrimination in Quebec

[D'rok]

I'm of two minds on the situation. I don't mind that they want to preserve French in thier province. I support that. But this is Canada, in which English is an official language. So when I call the government about my Quebec taxes and find out that the person will not speak to me in English, I get mad.

That strikes me as hypocritical too. It's possible the person can't speak English, which isn't unusual if you consider the reverse scenario - i.e., calling up, say, the Alberta government about your Alberta taxes and finding that the person on the phone will not (can't) speak to you in French.

Seriously, how many other provinces do you think offer service in French? Likely quite a bit in Ontario, obviously New Brunswick, and perhaps Manitoba. I suspect a francophone is out of luck elsewhere.

 

[Canadian712]

You just jumped from jobs to services. That's called moving the goalposts.

Most jobs are private sector. How do you propose to force the private sector to create equal numbers of franco/anglo jobs? It's only the federal public service that can realistically get away with that.

The federal services constantly promote bilingualism in Canada so why not offer bilingual jobs everywhere? I don't know about the specifics of how that would work, but I would imagine that the private sector might be able to also provide Franco jobs in Francophone areas of, say, Manitoba and Northern Ontario. Perhaps this might be easier for the federal public service.

If you want to rant against everything French, go ahead, I won't entertain your little personal war.

No, I love French people it's just that the language is very hard for me. What needs to be ranted about are the discriminatory laws passed by the National Assembly.

 

[Madalch]

That strikes me as hypocritical too. It's possible the person can't speak English, which isn't unusual if you consider the reverse scenario - i.e., calling up, say, the Alberta government about your Alberta taxes and finding that the person on the phone will not (can't) speak to you in French.

I couldn't swear to it, but I'd suspect that the Albertan would be able to transfer you to someone who could.

 

[nimzov]

What needs to be ranted about are the discriminatory laws passed by the National Assembly.

These laws are there to protect french so that french in Quebec does not have the same fate it had in Louisiana. Demographics clearly indicate that it is french that is loosing ground not english.

 

[Canadian712]

These laws are there to protect french so that french in Quebec does not have the same fate it had in Louisiana. Demographics clearly indicate that it is french that is loosing ground not english.

Typical pequiste nonsense. Francophones still make up 53% of Montreal's population and all commercial, business signs are in French. Francophones still rule Quebec society and are in control of government. Quebec's anglo population is at an all time low 8.5%(by this i mean unilingual English speakers). Numerous English schools have closed down due to lack of government funding and enrollement in the English sector continues to drop by about 500 a year. Most immigrants are forced to choose French when they arrive in Quebec(although they usually choose to use English in their everyday lives). Yeah, such a decline....

And not to mention that the majority of Francophones oppose Bill 101 and subsequent laws.

 

[nimzov]

Typical pequiste nonsense.

No simple demography.

 

[Canadian712]

No simple demography.

Demography shows that French is on the rise, not on the decline. English is at 8.2% and French at 82%. Quite frankly, what on earth are you talking about?

 

[dudalb]

IMHO if you live in Quebec you would be wise to learn French, but I also think Quebec should be a true bilingual state, with neither language given supremacy above the other.
Or maybe we can have "The Battle of The Plains Of Abraham 2" to settle the matter.

 

[nimzov]

Demography shows that French is on the rise, not on the decline. English is at 8.2% and French at 82%. Quite frankly, what on earth are you talking about?

French is loosing grounds everywhere in Canada. Try to get served in french on Air Canada is a pain. Francophone will be a minority in Montreal in 20 years. If francophone become a minority in Montreal it is not hard to see what will be the fate of francos in the rest of Quebec. You don't seem to give a ◊◊◊◊ of what will become of french in Quebec if thing go on as they are now, so why should I care to explain.

Try to learn the language then maybe you will get a minimal understanding of the situation. As to this discussion I will go along with Pardalis at not feeding your rant.

 

[Segnosaur]

Most jobs are private sector. How do you propose to force the private sector to create equal numbers of franco/anglo jobs? It's only the federal public service that can realistically get away with that.

The federal services constantly promote bilingualism in Canada so why not offer bilingual jobs everywhere? I don't know about the specifics of how that would work, but I would imagine that the private sector might be able to also provide Franco jobs in Francophone areas of, say, Manitoba and Northern Ontario. Perhaps this might be easier for the federal public service.

Ummm... question here...

Do you even know what the "public sector" and "private sector" are (especially with respect to jobs)?

The private sector consists of companies. They hire people if/when they think hiring those people will help earn a profit. If the majority of a company's customers are francophone, then there is probably no advantage to them hiring anglophone speakers.

No, I love French people it's just that the language is very hard for me. What needs to be ranted about are the discriminatory laws passed by the National Assembly.

Yes, I agree that there are "discriminatory laws" passed by the Quebec government. However, your inability to find a job as an English speaker is not part of that discrimination.

 

[Segnosaur]

These laws are there to protect french so that french in Quebec does not have the same fate it had in Louisiana. Demographics clearly indicate that it is french that is loosing ground not english.

I agree that the purpose of the discriminatory french laws is to protect the usage of the French language in Quebec. I also agree that its quite likely that French could disappear (or its usage severely curtailed) without them.

However, the big question that needs to be asked is:

So what?

A language is not a living thing. A language disappearing is not like a person dying. If a person decides that, for whatever reason they prefer using language A over language B, they should have that right, and if everyone stops using language B the world will go on and nobody will be any worse off for it.

Language usage evolves. Syntax and vocabularies change, languages merge and diverge. It should not be the role of the government to tell us "you cannot have certain freedoms because we want to protect something which doesn't really matter".

 

[Segnosaur]

BTW, the English are the best treated minority anywhere.

Ummm... no, they're not.

I live in Ontario. If an Ontario francophone wishes, they can buy a business and post signs in their native language. English speakers living in Quebec don't have the same rights.

They got three major TV and many radio stations all their own, newspapers...

Ummmm... so? The existence of English media sources in Quebec doesn't necessarily mean that the minority are being "treated well". I suspect many (if not most) of those stations and newspapers are supported by members of the English community themselves, not by a "benevolent" french community trying to support the English minority.

Is it really considered "treating a minority well" by oppressing them less than you could otherwise?

Oh, and I should point out that there are also french language newspapers and radio stations here in Ontario too. (While they may not be as well known as the English newspapers in Quebec, that has more to do with the concentration of the minorities than anything else.)

...the best schools (McGill, Concordia, Bishop, Dawson, etc), the best hospitals and all the services they need in both languages if they wish.

Bilingual and francophone schools also exist in other parts of the country too. Here in Ottawa we have the Montfort (French) and Ottawa (Bilingual) hospital. And there are also plenty of post-secondary schools that cater to Ontario Francophones as well. (See: http://www.edu.gov.on.ca/eng/general/list/frenchlanguage.html)

Now, while most of those places aren't as well known as places like McGill, it again probably has more to do with the concentration of Anglophones in the Montreal area (allowing them to support a larger school), as opposed to the more diverse Francophone community here in Ontario.

 

[Pardalis]

So what?

If you're asking this question, then it means you will never understand.

 

[The Fool]

Is it true that all french canadians are alcoholics? And is it true that all Anglo Canadians have thrush? These are common beliefs in Australia.

 

[Canadian712]

French is loosing grounds everywhere in Canada. Try to get served in french on Air Canada is a pain. Francophone will be a minority in Montreal in 20 years. If francophone become a minority in Montreal it is not hard to see what will be the fate of francos in the rest of Quebec. You don't seem to give a ◊◊◊◊ of what will become of french in Quebec if thing go on as they are now, so why should I care to explain.

Try to learn the language then maybe you will get a minimal understanding of the situation. As to this discussion I will go along with Pardalis at not feeding your rant.

I don't give a **** because it's not true. The French language never was and most likely won't be in danger for a very long time. I don't want the French to be assimilated either, but the matter of the fact is, Montreal is 53% Francophone, 25% Anglophone and 30% Allophone(or something between those statistics, not aware of the specifics).

It's true that in Canada, French Canadians only represent about 4% but the issue here is Quebec, not Canada as a whole. And FYI, I speak basic French, enough to get me by.I'm in CEGEP and always went to English public school. What I'm really fed up about is French favoritism in Quebec and that people keep electing racist bigots as their PM(the fact that Pauline Marois is the chief of the official position is scary by itself). I'm also sick of the fact that Quebec government keeps trying to destroy the English school system with laws like Bill 101 and 104(which was thankfully struck down by the Supreme Court of Canada, thus reopening the loophole that allows students to attend English public schools after attending an English private school for one full year).

IMHO if you live in Quebec you would be wise to learn French, but I also think Quebec should be a true bilingual state, with neither language given supremacy above the other.

Exactly my point. Why should Canada attempt to practice bilingualism when it is unacceptable in unilingual French Quebec? Bill 101 has been deemed unconstitutional in 1988(Ford v. Quebec (Attorney General) 1988 2 S.C.R. 712). Why should the Quebec French elitists(the politicians, not the regular citizens) get any respect when they refuse to give any?

 

[Canadian712]

Yes, I agree that there are "discriminatory laws" passed by the Quebec government. However, your inability to find a job as an English speaker is not part of that discrimination.

Not to a great extent that is. If you live in Quebec it is wise to speak French, but i believe Anglos who at least try to speak French or is not very fluent should also be given a shot. I was lucky to be hired in places where they accepted Anglos before, even though I spoke enough French to get me by customers.

I agree that the purpose of the discriminatory french laws is to protect the usage of the French language in Quebec. I also agree that its quite likely that French could disappear (or its usage severely curtailed) without them.

So does that excuse the discrimination? I think not.

The private sector consists of companies. They hire people if/when they think hiring those people will help earn a profit. If the majority of a company's customers are francophone, then there is probably no advantage to them hiring anglophone speakers.

Thanks for clarifying that for me

 

[Pardalis]

You're in CÉGEP?

You're blaming Québec for not having a job and you're in freaking college? You don't have a job man because you're still young, uneducated, and unqualified . It doesn't have anything to do with favoritism or language. Get a freaking hold of yourself.

Why don't you try to learn a little history before you judge the entire province. Learn the history of the province of the last few decades to start.

And don't come back before you have had some clue.

 

[Pardalis]

There hasn't been any feud in the last decade between the French and the English in Québec, everything is going fine between the two communities. I was wondering why all of a sudden someone started a thread about old grievances, opening up old wounds.

Now I know why. A freaking toddler just learned about Bill 101 at school.

*********** ridiculous.

Why don't you grow some facial hair.

And leave Madame Marois alone, you can't even vote goddammit!

 

[Canadian712]

You're in CÉGEP?

You're blaming Québec for not having a job and you're in freaking college? You don't have a job man because you're still young, uneducated, and unqualified . It doesn't have anything to do with favoritism or language. Get a freaking hold of yourself.

Why don't you try to learn a little history before you judge the entire province. Learn the history of the province of the last few decades to start.

And don't come back before you have had some clue.

I should have clarified that I didn't mean a career. I meant a part time job, as a student.

Why don't you try to learn a little history before you judge the entire province. Learn the history of the province of the last few decades to start.

I know all about the Quite Revolution, the official languages act, bill 101 etc.. It's good that French is now the main language of administration because Francos are the majority. The ruling French should give the Anglos the same rights we gave the Quebecois when the English were administrating the province. It's almost as if the Quebec government is trying to take revenge on the Anglos. I also know that numerous businesses moved to Toronto because of the strict language laws and that caused Montreal's decline as Canada's most economically important city.

 

[fuelair]

I recently ran across the JREF forum and saw a "Non-USA politics" session and so I've decided to talk about an issue that is affecting me on a personal level.

I live in the Montreal area and live with my parents. I'm currently having a hard time finding a job due to my lack of French and this province is notorious throughout Canada for its intolerant treatment towards Anglophones. Now, one might say "just learn French you tard", but it's more than just that. I'm a Canadian citizen, and as such I should have my rights as an English speaker to have my rights in Quebec.

Apart from discrimination in the work force, there is toons of discrimination in the education sector. The provincial government is doing everything in its might to strangle the English language public education in Quebec with such racist laws such as Bill 101, Bill 22 and most recently Bill 104(which was struck down by the Supreme Court of Canada). Essentially, you cannot send your child to an English unless one of the parents attended an English public school in Quebec or if the child has attended an English school somewhere else in Canada. These laws and more have caused a severe drop in students in the English sector and in the long run, caused many Anglos to leave the province.

Having said all this, I must say that it is a big shame that only the racist, anti-English language bigots like Pauline Marois somehow make their voices heard, while the Francophone MAJORITY who do not wish for all the current events occurring in Quebec are silenced in the Franco-media, and Quebecers like myself have gained a notorious stereotype.

Heard about this rather many years ago - that's why I have enjoyed both coasts of Canada but have no interest in the french quarter. Have no problem with French being the language there - people should be free to do silly stuff. But having no signs in English (per conditions when I was first informed of the situation) seemed buttholy to me - and nothing requires my going there so I don't.