Answers in Genesis tackles atheist ad campaign

[Safe-Keeper]

Ended up on the AiG web site just now, courtesy of a link on skepticblog. Featuring predominately on the top of their page is a big banner, with the "be good for goodness' sake" ad campaign and the caption "Is being good enough?". Here is the article you get by clicking the link, with commentary from me.

Being “good” can get you far in our world. Good behavior wins praise, commuted jail terms, and tangible rewards. Good deeds net accolades and often tax benefits. Good things come to those who wait, who do good for others, who spread good “karma.” And we celebrate “goodness” the most during this time of year.

Superb! Right off the bat, AiG admits that there are good reasons to be good, and that it shouldn't just be a ploy to suck up to the great principal in the sky! Surely the ad's mission is accomplished if even AiG has hopped onto this stance?

But what if our “good” deeds are just a mask for the bad things we hide inside?

...or perhaps that was a tad bit too optimistic on my part.

Atheists tell us that we should be good for goodness sake, that people can be good without God. But they don’t tell us how they know or how they measure what is “good.”

Oh, we're doing this again. I can see where this is going... my sceptic senses are tingling... yes...

The problem with the world’s understanding of “goodness” is that there’s no foundation, no solid definition. We all have our own ideas about what’s acceptable and what’s not or what deserves praise and what doesn’t. In fact, one person may condemn what another person sees as “for the greater good.”

...aaah, yup. The old bologna that only religious dogma can tell people what is right and wrong. Never mind that I could very easily turn this around and say that religion is no solid foundation for everything, given that Christianity alone has thousands of denominations that can't even find common moral ground internally and keeps reinterpreting their Scriptural laws as time goes by. But AiG isn't just saying that atheists can't be good. This time they take it once step further and say no one is good:

The truth is that “being good” is not good enough. In fact, our own good deeds are nothing more than filthy rags we hope will cover our faults and failures.

For all of us have become like one who is unclean, and all our righteous deeds are like a filthy garment. (Isaiah 64:6)​

​

That's right, folks, when you volunteer, donate money, offer a shoulder for a crying friend, hold the door open for the person behind you, or stop at a car accident to give CPR to a little child, you're not really doing good at all, just covering up your misdeeds, trying to compensate for the fact that you are an evil and worthless sinner.

But surely now we're reached Peak Fail? OK, so we have no way to know good from bad, and we do good only for selfish reasons. Breathe a sigh of relief and relax those muscles, because it can't get any worse than this... right?

Oh, yes it can. Because the article takes it even further, while conveniently seguing to generic "Jesus died for your Sins" preaching:

But you don’t have to make your own way—you don’t have to hope that you’re doing enough.
​

A little over 2,000 years ago, something truly good happened—something that is like nothing else before or since. You may have heard the story before, but have you really listened?
​

Jesus came to earth because He knew that our own attempts at being good would never get us anywhere.​

There you have it, folks - you can protect democracy. We'll still be just as bad as Nazis, or the North Korean rulers, or the butchers of Rwanda. Whether you rape a girl or hold her hand means nothing.

God had given us laws to obey and we completely failed to keep them—we have sinned against a holy God. He saw us struggling—and He came to struggle right alongside us, to know what it’s like to be human.
​

And the amazing part is that He lived a perfect life never sinning by violating any of God’s laws. He understood goodness because He is the living definition.​

Right. God never hated, killed or lied to anyone, except from all those times in the Old Testament. Oh, wait. Genocide and other atrocities are justified when He actually commits them.

But He didn’t do that to rub it in or to make us feel bad.

Of course not, humans are quite good at that already. See, for example, this very article.

He lived a perfect life so that He could show us the way, could make us right with our Creator. God’s penalty for sin is death, but Christ has freed us from the bondage of death by dying on the Cross as a substitute for us. He took the guilt and showed us how empty “being good” is without Him.​

No one is good—except God alone. (Luke 18:19)​

Your own good deeds, they’ll never get you anywhere, never make you free of your sin debt.​

Except from the fact that if there's no Yahweh watching down on us with angry eyes from the Heavens, there is no Sin or "sin debt", and we can make reasonable amends for the evils we commit. Murderers can serve jailtime. Thieves can repay what they stole. Liars can apologize. Destroyers can rebuild.

No one needs to live a life as worthless because they cannot attain an absurd level of perfection put forth by some power-hungry tyrant.

But Jesus Christ came to earth, died as a substitute, and rose to life to do something we couldn’t do ourselves: He gave us new life, new hope, new birth.
​

If you’ve never experienced this freedom...​

I see AiG is doing the Nineteen Eighty-Four "Freedom is Slavery" deal again - unless you toil and hate yourself for a dictator in the heavens, you're not truly free! They must really yearn to live in Burma or North Korea.

Ask God to forgive your sins against Him in the past and believe that Christ came to take the penalty for your disobedience and show you what goodness is all about.​

For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved. (John 3:16–17)​

So basically, the moral lesson of this story? Don't bother doing good. Jesus died so that you can rape, murder, steal, burn and terrorize all you want, because sucking up to the Great Leader has earned you your VIP ticket to Heaven.

Oh, and you may have noticed the "loved the world" part up there in that quote. Dunno how the author missed it. It clearly wasn't intended to be there, when it so flagrantly contradicts the article's message that we're all worthless sinners who in God's eyes deserve nothing but Hell, unless they suck up to Him.

"You are a bunch of worthless tossers and everything you do is worthless, but I'll spare you the eternal torture you deserve if you become my homies" comforts rapists and paedophiles, but it isn't a message of love and forgiveness.

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On another note: No, Al Gore doesn't have anything to do with the thread subject, but I figured that when so many people love so much to stick him into their thread tags without any kind of relevance, there must be some fun in it or something. Perhaps I'm wrong.

 

[Darth Rotor]

Jesus died so that you can rape, murder, steal, burn and terrorize all you want, because sucking up to the Great Leader has earned you your VIP ticket to Heaven.

... snip...
Perhaps I'm wrong.

Perhaps seems extraneous there.

DR

 

[Gawdzilla Sama]

If I know this life is the only one I'm going to get, why would I want to risk spending it in prison, or end it early in the Texas Chair of Rehabilitation?

I really love it when someone says, "If there were no God there would be nothing to stop me from stealing, raping, and killing." I always suggest that they be kept away from children and not given jobs that don't involve brooms or shovels.

 

[Cainkane1]

Well listening to some of the AIG'S little spiels when people are touring that absurd museum of theirs and observing their facial expressions, body language and such when they make such brillaint comments such as but no limited to saying "Darwinists" have no moral reason to do good says a lot. They don't look completely sane. Its hard to explain but to me they just don't look right.

 

[Safe-Keeper]

Perhaps seems extraneous there.

I'm not saying that's the gist of current Christianity. I'm saying it's the (hopefully unintentional) logical conclusion of the article.

 

[Cynic]

"Tackles" makes it sound like someone ended up on the ground besides them.

 

[Darth Rotor]

I'm not saying that's the gist of current Christianity. I'm saying it's the (hopefully unintentional) logical conclusion of the article.

Ah, thanks, critique of the article. (Also, I was being a little snarky).

DR

 

[Mister Agenda]

You did it very well, though. That was some good snark.

 

[Safe-Keeper]

There oughta be a monthly snark award.

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

Perhaps seems extraneous there.

DR

Care to elaborate in light of the OP? The worst people in the world need only ask forgiveness and the best people in the world are doomed to hell if they don't. Seems pretty straightforward to me. Christians designed themselves a religion where they can do whatever they want and it is God's will. Everyone else gets to burn in hell for not being in the in crowd.

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

I'm not saying that's the gist of current Christianity. I'm saying it's the (hopefully unintentional) logical conclusion of the article.

Regardless of the fact individual Christians may indeed be good people and there are even some that claim hell is not a true Christian belief, it is the logical conclusion of this Christian philosophy.

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

You did it very well, though. That was some good snark.

Clever snark, perhaps, but I would quibble with "good".

 

[Eyeron]

You know, one of the things I don't get about heaven is this.

How is God going to enforce his rules in heaven? Especially since he can't seem to enforce his rules on earth.

One of the things I often hear from theists is that "there is no sin in heaven".

Okay, that's fine and dandy, but how will God accomplish that? Will he drug the food and drink and turn people into robots? Strip away our alleged free will when he allegedly gave it to us in the first place?

By the way things sound in heaven is that we're all going to be turned into good little unthinking and unfeeling robots. And it often sounds like it'll be a tyranny since it seems he'll just strip away our core personalities.

No thanks.

 

[Dragoonster]

You know, one of the things I don't get about heaven is this.

How is God going to enforce his rules in heaven? Especially since he can't seem to enforce his rules on earth.

One of the things I often hear from theists is that "there is no sin in heaven".

Okay, that's fine and dandy, but how will God accomplish that? Will he drug the food and drink and turn people into robots? Strip away our alleged free will when he allegedly gave it to us in the first place?

By the way things sound in heaven is that we're all going to be turned into good little unthinking and unfeeling robots. And it often sounds like it'll be a tyranny since it seems he'll just strip away our core personalities.

No thanks.

Excellent question.

Maybe God cheats and doesn't allow any possibilty for sin. Perhaps there are no implements one could use for assault, no food so no gluttony, no sex so no adultery, no property so no envy. Heaven might be completely sterile (and perhaps has an awfully high suicide rate! )

OP--nice deconstruction of the article!

 

[Rosencrantz]

You know, one of the things I don't get about heaven is this.

How is God going to enforce his rules in heaven? Especially since he can't seem to enforce his rules on earth.

One of the things I often hear from theists is that "there is no sin in heaven".

Okay, that's fine and dandy, but how will God accomplish that? Will he drug the food and drink and turn people into robots? Strip away our alleged free will when he allegedly gave it to us in the first place?

By the way things sound in heaven is that we're all going to be turned into good little unthinking and unfeeling robots. And it often sounds like it'll be a tyranny since it seems he'll just strip away our core personalities.

No thanks.

Hmm... Wouldn't this suggest that Heaven == Death? Seems pretty simple: no more consciousness, no more sin.

 

[KarlG]

You know, one of the things I don't get about heaven is this.

How is God going to enforce his rules in heaven? Especially since he can't seem to enforce his rules on earth.

One of the things I often hear from theists is that "there is no sin in heaven".

Okay, that's fine and dandy, but how will God accomplish that? Will he drug the food and drink and turn people into robots? Strip away our alleged free will when he allegedly gave it to us in the first place?

By the way things sound in heaven is that we're all going to be turned into good little unthinking and unfeeling robots. And it often sounds like it'll be a tyranny since it seems he'll just strip away our core personalities.

No thanks.

Yeah, i've wondered about this too. God gives us free will and allows us to sin, as without free will our praise is worthless. But in heaven, we can not choose to sin, so there is no free will. So you have to use your free will to worship and get to heaven, but once there our free will counts for nought? Makes perfect sense?

 

[Gawdzilla Sama]

You know, one of the things I don't get about heaven is this.

How is God going to enforce his rules in heaven? Especially since he can't seem to enforce his rules on earth.

One of the things I often hear from theists is that "there is no sin in heaven".

Okay, that's fine and dandy, but how will God accomplish that? Will he drug the food and drink and turn people into robots? Strip away our alleged free will when he allegedly gave it to us in the first place?

By the way things sound in heaven is that we're all going to be turned into good little unthinking and unfeeling robots. And it often sounds like it'll be a tyranny since it seems he'll just strip away our core personalities.

No thanks.

The inmates of Heaven will be mindblasted bots without the will or capability to think for themselves or do anything "outside the box", so its not an issue. But we have the precedent of Lucifer if someone should manage to challenge the Big Guy on his own turf.

Which brings up the question, why was there a "war" in heaven? God couldn't snap his fingers and end it? And why, if he is omniscient, didn't he see it coming and snuff it? (And that brings up the question why he didn't see it from Day One if he's omniscient.)

So many contradictions and quandaries in one meme.

 

[Marduk]

if Hell is being locked in a room forever with Jean Paul Sartre and his friends, it follows that heaven must be not being locked in a room forever with Jean Paul Sartre.

I need to know that Jean Paul Sartre was not YHWH masquerading as a french existentialist before we take this any further

 

[Safe-Keeper]

One of the things I often hear from theists is that "there is no sin in heaven".

Okay, that's fine and dandy, but how will God accomplish that?

Don't think I've ever gotten a good answer on this. Every Christian I talk to about this seems to think our world would be horrible if, say, God stopped all rape, but then they turn around 180 degrees and state that Heaven will be awesome because... it's sin-free.

Best answer I've gotten was "oh, humans just don't sin in Heaven. They just don't". Which is a non-answer because if we "just don't" sin in Heaven, why can't we "just not" Sin on Earth?

Which brings up the question, why was there a "war" in heaven? God couldn't snap his fingers and end it?

God has demonstrated repeatedly throughout the Bible that death, destruction and suffering are not taken into consideration when He decides on what to do for to the world.

See the story in Exodus (?) in which He hardens the pharaoh's heart to make him refuse the Israelis freedom, only so that God can slaughter every firstborn in the entire country to, in His own words, gain street cred. Not content with being known as the butcherer of so many innocents, He then proceeds to harden the hearts of charioteers after they have decided to not cross the divided sea, so that they attempt to cross it anyway so that God may drown them.

Also keep in mind that this is the same God who drowned everyone on Earth but a single family back in the day. Concepts such as "doing to others what you would want done unto you" ironically seem lost on Him.

 

[Gawdzilla Sama]

if Hell is being locked in a room forever with Jean Paul Sartre and his friends, it follows that heaven must be not being locked in a room forever with Jean Paul Sartre.

I need to know that Jean Paul Sartre was not YHWH masquerading as a french existentialist before we take this any further

Sounds like the Gary Larsen cartoon:

"Welcome to Heaven, here's your harp."

"Welcome to Hell, here's your accordion."