Another 'war' in Gaza

[Doctor Evil]

Since nobody have started a thread about this, I will.

In the last few years, some small Al Qaeda affiliated groups have appeared in Gaza. Initially, they got along well with Hamas. Now they are fighting each other.

The tensions between the groups and Hamas have risen sharply following the last war between Hamas and Israel. As a result of that war, Hamas have stopped shooting rockets and mortars into Israel. In some instances, it also prevented other groups from shooting rockets. This was unpopular with the Al Qaeda affiliated groups, which do not accept the concept of a cease fire, even temporary. (Hamas is interested in keeping the quiet for a while, to stabilize its hold on the strip, and to get hold of longer range rockets.)

On Friday night, it all blew apart

The leader of a radical Islamist group involved in a shootout with Hamas in Gaza is one of at least 24 people killed in the raid, reports say. Abdul-Latif Moussa died in an explosion, officials said, but it was not clear whether he blew himself up.
On Friday Hamas, which controls Gaza, launched a bloody crackdown on the group, Jund Ansar Allah, after it declared an "Islamic emirate"

The group then declared war on Hamas

In a message posted by al-Qaeda's websites the Islamic Swords of Justice, a group affiliated with the Salafi movement, vowed to avenge the deaths. "We tell our people who witnessed this crime that this is not over, and war is on its way," the message said.


The group warned residents of the Gaza Strip to stay away from government ministries and Hamas security offices.


"We call on our people to stay away from mosques attended by leaders of the infidels Ismail Haniyeh and the ministers and legislators of his government, who legislate against the will of Allah," the message added.

In reality, this extremist group is too small to be a rival to Hamas.

 

[gtc]

Yep.

One side or the other critically injured a 3 year old Egyptian caught by a bullet that strayed across the border. Hamas dynamited the house of one of their leaders.

Hamas seem to be blaming Israel (naturally).

At the same time, Hamas premier Ismail Haniya denied that the group exists.

"No such groups exist on the ground in Gaza," he said at prayers in the northern Gaza town of Beit Lahiya. He blamed the "Israeli media for spreading this information with a view to turning the world against Gaza."

 

[The Fool]

ummm....someone is attacking people affiliated with Al qaeda. Shouldn't we like that?

 

[gtc]

No.

You can do better than suggesting that we should be supporting a terrorist organisation like Hamas.

 

[Architect]

I am minded for the Pratchett quote about "The Scots fighting their age-old enemies, the Scots".

 

[The Fool]

No.

You can do better than suggesting that we should be supporting a terrorist organisation like Hamas.

If we ask them to control terrorists in Gaza what should we do if they attack some? Shouldn't we be saying well done, go attack some more?

 

[ddt]

No.

You can do better than suggesting that we should be supporting a terrorist organisation like Hamas.

And I think The Fool only said he liked it, not anything about supporting Hamas. I don't know what's there not to like about it, especially when you have a pro-Israel stance. AQ group eliminated, Hamas spends it efforts on that, and not on throwing missiles at Israel, developing better missiles or on bullying the average Joe in Gaza. Win-win-win, I'd say.

 

[Marc39]

If we ask them to control terrorists in Gaza what should we do if they attack some? Shouldn't we be saying well done, go attack some more?

Terrorists controlling terrorists? I suppose I could get behind this if I knew it would result in self-immolation. However, what is being played out is an Islamic power struggle, fueled by Iran, for dominance over the region and for global jihad resulting in their perverse vision for the eventual creation of a worldwide caliphate.

 

[dudalb]

I am minded for the Pratchett quote about "The Scots fighting their age-old enemies, the Scots".

More like Two Mafia families fighting because one is trying to muscle in on the other's territory....

 

[Tailgater]

So, when do we start arming the losing side?

 

[FireGarden]

Since nobody have started a thread about this, I will.

Are we damned if we do, damned if we don't on this subject?

In the last few years, some small Al Qaeda affiliated groups have appeared in Gaza. Initially, they got along well with Hamas.

Do you have a source for that?
Your own link in the OP says:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/8202746.stm

Hamas has cracked down hard on al-Qaeda-inspired groups in the past, the BBC's Middle East correspondent Katya Adler says.

BBC, 2006: Hamas rejects al-Qaeda's support
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/4776578.stm

YNET, 2007: Al-Qaeda: Hamas betrayed God
Terror group says it cannot 'keep silent' over Hamas path 'which will lead to hell'
http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3396525,00.html

The tensions between the groups and Hamas have risen sharply following the last war between Hamas and Israel. As a result of that war, Hamas have stopped shooting rockets and mortars into Israel. In some instances, it also prevented other groups from shooting rockets.

They also did that in the previous ceasefire, when they arrested members of the Al-Aqsa Martyrs Brigade -- Fatah's armed wing.
http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1000881.html

Hamas arrested three Palestinians who fired rockets into Israel from the Gaza Strip on Thursday, a militant faction said, in the first such detentions since the Islamist group and Israel agreed on a cease-fire last month.

Al-Aqsa Martyrs Brigades, a militant offshoot of President Mahmoud Abbas' Fatah faction, said Hamas men pursued its members after the attack and "abducted them" in Jabalya refugee camp.

In reality, this extremist group is too small to be a rival to Hamas.

Things have a habit of getting worse when no-one allows them to get better. At the moment, Israel has recieved offers of long term truces with Hamas in return for a 2-state solution. Here's one from 2006:
http://edition.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/meast/04/04/mideast/index.html

In a letter to U.N. Secretary-General Kofi Annan, Mahmoud Zahar even mentioned the possibility of a "two-state" solution in which Palestinians have "freedom and independence side by side with our neighbors" -- despite Hamas' long-standing vow to eradicate Israel.

But heck, no, let's wait and see how many attempted coups Hamas can survive. Then we can not talk to whichever extremist group finally defeats Hamas.

 

[Doctor Evil]

Are we damned if we do, damned if we don't on this subject?

Huh, what is that supposed to mean? Who are these 'we' you refer to?

Do you have a source for that?
Your own link in the OP says:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/8202746.stm



BBC, 2006: Hamas rejects al-Qaeda's support
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/4776578.stm

YNET, 2007: Al-Qaeda: Hamas betrayed God
Terror group says it cannot 'keep silent' over Hamas path 'which will lead to hell'
http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3396525,00.html

Yes, I do:

In practice, the factions have smuggled weapons into the Strip and held training camps in the ruins of Gush Katif. In some cases, Hamas continued to use the Al-Qaida affiliated operatives for its aims. For example, they carried out the bombing of the shop belonging to the nephew of Fatah leader and former Gaza Strip strongman Mohammed Dahlan in Gaza City last month, injuring dozens. According to reports from the Strip, Hamas commanders have reached local alliances with the heads of the extremists.

Note that my claim was that Hamas got along well with the extremist groups in Gaza. Not that they wanted official support from the heads of Al Qaeda.

They also did that in the previous ceasefire, when they arrested members of the Al-Aqsa Martyrs Brigade -- Fatah's armed wing.
http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1000881.html

Which is a political rival. Did they arrest anyone from Islamic Jihad? In any case, rocket fire never stopped completely during that ceasefire. It has stopped now. It seems they are much more serious regarding a cease fire at this time.

Things have a habit of getting worse when no-one allows them to get better. At the moment, Israel has recieved offers of long term truces with Hamas in return for a 2-state solution. Here's one from 2006:
http://edition.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/meast/04/04/mideast/index.html



But heck, no, let's wait and see how many attempted coups Hamas can survive. Then we can not talk to whichever extremist group finally defeats Hamas.

Oh please.

Hamas position is that if several condition will be fulfilled they will accept a limited time cease fire, or hudna. The condition include a complete Israeli withdrawal to the 1967 borders and the return of all Palestinian refugees to Israel. This is a non starter. First, they go beyond what an Israeli government can give in a final peace deal, and what Hamas are offering is not peace. Secondly, the insistence of a cease fire and not peace just shows that the long range goals of Hamas stay as they always were, namely the destruction of Israel.

If Hamas want to end its political isolation, it just needs to agree to the conditions that the international community has set.
1. Renounce the use of violence
2. Recognise Israel.
3. Recognise previous agreements.

These are very basic conditions. I believe that the conditions put towards Shin Fein, for instance, were more harsh. After all no one talks about Hamas disarming itself before talks.

 

[Pardalis]

Al Qaeda in Gaza, I don't like the sound of that. They're even more irrational and unpredictable than Hamas. At least Hamas' goals are clear, AQ just want chaos.

 

[Sword_Of_Truth]

If AQ and Hamas were to throw the gloves down and go after each other, I'd consider donating to both of them.

 

[Architect]

So, when do we start arming the losing side?

Only once we've sold everything we can to the winning side.

 

[Marc39]

Israel has recieved offers of long term truces with Hamas in return for a 2-state solution.

Hudnas, advocated by the Qur'an for the strategic purpose of re-arming and returning to war in order to vanquish the infidel (Israel), are unacceptable.

If you believe otherwise, I have land in Yemen I'd like to sell you.

 

[The Fool]

Hudnas, advocated by the Qur'an for the strategic purpose of re-arming and returning to war in order to vanquish the infidel (Israel), are unacceptable.

If you believe otherwise, I have land in Yemen I'd like to sell you.

You are irrelevant to any discussion of solutions.Your solution is no different to that proposed by the nutjobs extremist in Hamas....Leave or die.

oops, sorry I probably am being unfair on you....There is another option. Leave, remain on Israeli land as untermenchen or die. Although to be fair you only recently added the stay as untermenchen option when it became impossible even for you to continue the line that you bere not advocating ethnic cleansing or worse.... and we have not heard any details from you of how a modern democracy is going to have an underclass of non citizens resident within its borders. Remember they are genetically unsuitable so they would "destroy" israel by simply becoming citizens in a modern democracy. No, your particular vision of modern democracy allows for a subclass of genetically unsuitable people.

Carry on Marc39. One day you may start discussing acceptable solutions and become relevant.

 

[Darth Rotor]

ummm....someone is attacking people affiliated with Al qaeda. Shouldn't we like that?

I do.

 

[Almo]

Terrorists controlling terrorists? I suppose I could get behind this if I knew it would result in self-immolation. However, what is being played out is an Islamic power struggle, fueled by Iran, for dominance over the region and for global jihad resulting in their perverse vision for the eventual creation of a worldwide caliphate.

At some point, Sinn Fein made the transition from terrorism to politics. Hamas will do the same. This is a step in that direction.

 

[Marc39]

Popcorn, peanuts, Cracker Jacks...

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=a6MvijtQo1Nk