Another unarmed black man shot

Drewbot said:
Oh well, this just changed everything.
At 50 seconds into this CNN video he clearly reaches in his pocket. He turns towards the officers while reaching in his pocket with both hands.


The cop is going to say she thought he was reaching for a weapon. Which I can fully understand from this angle.

http://www.cnn.com/2016/09/20/us/oklahoma-tulsa-police-shooting/
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If your description is accurate, then there won't be any charges, and I don't understand the media accounts not including that info.
 
eeyore1954 said:
Either way it appears something must have happened before the videos that caused there to be so many police there and guns drawn.
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This is the sequence of events as long as the audio was not altered to take out any time between radio chatter:


While in route to another call, Shelby calmly calls dispatch asking for another unit because she has came across a car abandoned in the road.
60 seconds later Shelby calls dispatch excitedly saying she has a subject who won't show his hands.
60 seconds later the helicopter arrives on scene.
At about the same time the first backup car shows up.
40 seconds later Crutcher is shot.

Two minutes and forty seconds passed between Shelby discovering the abandoned vehicle and Crutcher being shot. It appears the helicopter being at the scene so quick was happenstance.

Here's a link with the dispatch audio and police helicopter video.
http://www.newson6.com/story/33130765/tulsa-police-release-video-of-terrence-crutcher-shooting-death
 
Pterodactyl said:
Total speculation: Just watching that, they were probably yelling at him "get down" , "get down on the ground" and he kept walking away. Reaching into a car or pocket under those circumstances probably prompted the officer to shoot.
Tragic and horrible.
Avoidable.
Criminal? That will be a tough sell.
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Death for contempt of cop.
 
LTC8K6 said:
If your description is accurate, then there won't be any charges, and I don't understand the media accounts not including that info.
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Anyone who reaches into their pocket while walking to their car should clearly be shot. We will need to outlaw car keys but it will be a start.
 
Drewbot said:
Oh well, this just changed everything.
At 50 seconds into this CNN video he clearly reaches in his pocket. He turns towards the officers while reaching in his pocket with both hands.


The cop is going to say she thought he was reaching for a weapon. Which I can fully understand from this angle.

http://www.cnn.com/2016/09/20/us/oklahoma-tulsa-police-shooting/
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No. He didn't reach for his pocket. He was shot and his arm went limp. In the dashcam video, you clearly hear the gunshot precede the arm dropping.
 
ponderingturtle said:
Anyone who reaches into their pocket while walking to their car should clearly be shot. We will need to outlaw car keys but it will be a start.
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Car keys began to disappear quite a while ago, actually. I haven't used one in a long time.

I haven't seen the video that supposedly shows the reach for the pocket, but I was just noting that the media headlines all seem to say or imply that he was shot while his hands were up.

If he was not shot while his hands were up, but was in fact reaching into his pocket, then those headlines are pretty irresponsible given the environment of late.
 
ponderingturtle said:
Anyone who reaches into their pocket while walking to their car should clearly be shot. We will need to outlaw car keys but it will be a start.
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Nope, won't work. Keyless start and all. I had a cop pull a gun on me literally driving my new car home, under the speed limit to avoid any confrontation.

Here's the thing. You joke. This is actually a life or death matter, in the US. And I know that we have some clowns trying to crack jokes about on this forum , but this is serious business.
 
Dave Rogers said:
What about reaching into a car to get out something a police officer just told you to show them? Surely that's some kind of crime too.

Dave
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That officer was fired and charged with a felony, though.

He also apparently had PTSD and was on medications for it from a previous shooting incident where he was shot at, and he had been charged with shoplifting.
 
LTC8K6 said:
If your description is accurate, then there won't be any charges, and I don't understand the media accounts not including that info.
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The description is inaccurate. His arm only comes down halfway before he is shot dead. Then his arm "reaches for his pocket", in reaction to the simultaneous taser and gunshot. Besides, the cop's story is that he placed his LEFT hand inside the car window. Or appeared to do so. Not that he reached into his pocket. That came much earlier, when there was no recording (of course the cop intentionally turned off the dashcam so that she could murder a black man for ***** and giggles according to some cop-haters here).
 
Ammonitida said:
The description is inaccurate. His arm only comes down halfway before he is shot dead. Then his arm "reaches for his pocket", in reaction to the simultaneous taser and gunshot. Besides, the cop's story is that he placed his LEFT hand inside the car window. Or appeared to do so. Not that he reached into his pocket. That came much earlier, when there was no recording (of course the cop intentionally turned off the dashcam so that she could murder a black man for ***** and giggles according to some cop-haters here).
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What video are you able to see that clearly in?
 
Dave Rogers said:
What about reaching into a car to get out something a police officer just told you to show them? Surely that's some kind of crime too.

Dave
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It is at least enough to shoot you over, most of the time it will be thought of as fine. But this time the guy lived and the tape got out, and that was what really ruined a decorated police officers career.
 
Mumbles said:
Nope, won't work. Keyless start and all. I had a cop pull a gun on me literally driving my new car home, under the speed limit to avoid any confrontation.

Here's the thing. You joke. This is actually a life or death matter, in the US. And I know that we have some clowns trying to crack jokes about on this forum , but this is serious business.
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And they don't care and will continue to defend these actions. If you move wrong then clearly you should be shot and that is fine with many posters here.
 
LTC8K6 said:
That officer was fired and charged with a felony, though.
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That being the most remarkable thing. Usually they get promoted. Like how the officer who killed Eric Garner is pulling down a lot more money now than he was then, $20,000 a year more.
 
The biggest problem (for those not directly affected) is the total loss of authority and credibility of law enforcement.
A police force can't function without the goodwill of the public.
 
tyr_13 said:
From the article in the OP.



If they had reason to believe he had an explosive in the car, then the overall response and the shooting becomes more understandable. The shooting still appears to be premature because the tazer wasn't given the chance to work. Having his hands up at times doesn't actually negate other actions. If he was told to get away form the vehicle and he instead put his hands on the SUV, then he really wasn't following commands.

I'm not saying this was justified, but that there are other factors that could very well mitigate criticisms. It could also just be another massive cock-up.

Eagerly I await the accusations of excuse making and racism.
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Alternatively, if your car is blocking the road because it's broken down and you think it's on fire, then you might fear it exploding.
 
Dave Rogers said:
According to the officer's lawyer, he failed to follow commands and reacted erratically.

This issue of not following commands seems to me to be a common excuse offered by police officers. Putting aside the rather more prosaic arguments that (a) it's wise to follow the instructions of someone who might shoot you if you don't and (b) police are scared that anything unpredictable may lead to a suspect opening fire, what duty is there in US Federal or Oklahoma state law to obey the commands of a police officer, and within what limits?

Dave
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Unless the command is to get your licence, when reaching for your licence might be misinterpreted as getting a gun.
 
ponderingturtle said:
And they don't care and will continue to defend these actions. If you move wrong then clearly you should be shot and that is fine with many posters here.
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Trust this, I know. I'm sure that I were killed by police, and it made national news, some folks here would argue that I was a "thug", or whatever. We've seen that too many times not to recognize what it is. And I've had a gun pointed at my head by police for absurd reasons.

And while I'm not an activist, I will speak out agains this racist nonsense whenever I see it. And you should to, ponderingturtle. And I say that as you continue to speak out.

Keep putting in that work. I appreciate it.
 
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