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Another terrorist attack - London Bridge

Have a bench that i sit on that is on the river side of MI6. That's were all the coopers with their machine rifles were running about


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Nothing on News AP/Reuters. Near the M16 building is pure folly were it to be true. There are so many cameras in the area from the bus stops etc., it is almost Orwellian.
 
Probably a member of the public reported some suspicious looking youths or something. Regardless, shows how prepared the police are currently.

Little interesting fact about MI6, when you get close to the building your mobile phone signal completely drops, along with internet data. Don't know if that is just a coincidence but it's always interested me


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A guy just walked past my window carrying a shotgun. Thank God we live in the countryside.
 
quadraginta said:
I'd gotten the impression that the cameras all over London were almost Orwellian.

Glad to hear it's just an exaggeration.
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Fair point, but that area is/was an extra level. I went about 8 years ago, it might have changed.

ETA i.e. they are now hidden.
 
Archie Gemmill Goal said:
I'm on my tablet so can't be bothered formatting quotes etc but in order.

1. You seem to be confused about the purpose of protests. It's not to show your disapproval for something it's to put pressure on authorities to act to stop the thing you are protesting. Anti ISIS protests in Europe would be about as useful as protesting the weather.
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Protests have many purposes, they can be used to show disapproval of something just as they can be shown to put pressure on authorities. Moreover, anti-ISIS protests over Europe would put pressure on Islamic theologians to come up with a standardized set of Islamic doctrine and decry others as heretical. It doesn't need to be all inclusive or anything, it doesn't need to decide on which line of succession from Mohammed is the righteous one, it just needs to decide whether it is Islamic to live in peace with your infidel neighbors or is a Muslim only allowed to do so if he is plotting to subjugate them eventually. Until this question is unequivocally settled and agreed upon there will be no peace.

2. You say people go to work to earn money and yet we know people who have more money than they could ever spend still work while others volunteer their time for free. Nor does more money make people enjoy their job more. So no even that rather basic element of life is complex and not easily distilled into one driver.
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An overwhelming majority of people work in order to earn money. If you want a reason that will apply to every single individual and disregard all others you will find there is no reason to work or do just about anything else.

This is getting nowhere though.
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Of course not. You have decided Islam is not a causative factor of anything bad (but Christianity can be, strangely enough) and refuse to accept obvious evidence you're wrong. How can we move from this impasse is beyond me.

McHrozni
 
McHrozni said:
<snip>
Of course not. You have decided Islam is not a causative factor of anything bad (but Christianity can be, strangely enough)
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Nope. He hasn't said anything like that.

Although the contortions you would put yourself through to try and show that he did would be vastly amusing. Go for it.

and refuse to accept obvious evidence you're wrong.
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Evidence which appears to "obvious" only to people who are as prejudiced as you seem to be.

How can we move from this impasse is beyond me.
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Not lying outright about what people say to you would be a dandy start.
 
DragonLady said:
I think the first question is: Do the Islamic peoples see them as a problem?

I think the whole of non-Islamic society is at war with Islam. Further, I believe the entire Islamic society is at war with everyone else.



1) Every single person on the planet who is not Islamic converts immediately.
or
2) Every single person who is Islamic renounces such immediately and permanently.
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They'll just pretend, like Jews and Muslims in Spain. Finally the ex Muslim population was expelled. But you are arguing for world wide, so you have to kill them all, before they cut our throats in our beds.
 
baron said:
Mark Steyn on the real dangers of Islam. One of his best talks. Douglas Murray's talk from the same event was equally good.

https://youtu.be/jhjUUbmCCdA
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Real dangers/imagined dangers - potayto/potahto :rolleyes:

Mark Steyn's recent career success has been founded on his pushing of the idea of Eurabia. To quote from wiki.

Steyn believes that what he describes as "Eurabia", a future where the European continent is dominated by Islam, is an imminent reality that cannot be reversed. "Every Continental under the age of 40—make that 60, if not 75—is all but guaranteed to end his days living in an Islamified Europe."
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Sounds distinctly alarmist to me - not least because it assumes a rate of growth of Islamic influence and population far beyond what is reasonable.
 
The Don said:
Real dangers/imagined dangers - potayto/potahto :rolleyes:

Mark Steyn's recent career success has been founded on his pushing of the idea of Eurabia. To quote from wiki.

Sounds distinctly alarmist to me - not least because it assumes a rate of growth of Islamic influence and population far beyond what is reasonable.
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It assumes Muslims immigrants to Europe retain the high growth rates in Europe for another two generations while everything else remains the same. It's alarmist nonsense, ~90-99% of Muslim immigrants are indistinguishable from non-Muslims within a few years or a generation.

The remaining 1-10% are what is worrying, as is the tolerance in Islamic community of those views. Terrorism is just the tip of the iceberg, the real problem is presence and tolerance of extremist views. A good deal of them really do desire Eurabia, they just think the right time isn't here yet and they should wait another generation or two.

Islamification of Europe is much further away than what he's saying, but that's the best can be said about it.

McHrozni
 
McHrozni said:
Islamification of Europe is much further away than what he's saying, but that's the best can be said about it.

McHrozni
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If it is on the cards, it seems a long way off to me. Even if Muslims somehow manage to become the majority of the population, they still wield proportionally little power.

Yes the tiny number of terrorists can create the impression that they have a lot of influence but, for example, the UK is firmly under the control of Old Etonians and their ilk who are fewer in number than Muslims.
 
The Don said:
If it is on the cards, it seems a long way off to me. Even if Muslims somehow manage to become the majority of the population, they still wield proportionally little power.
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True, but in a democracy they don't need much more than numbers to start getting a voice and they don't need much of a voice to start destroying the country from within - see Brexit for an example of just that.

Yes the tiny number of terrorists can create the impression that they have a lot of influence but, for example, the UK is firmly under the control of Old Etonians and their ilk who are fewer in number than Muslims.
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No doubt there, but this coin has another side. It doesn't take all that many extremists to pull many of the other Muslims behind them either, forming a critical mass. Some studies have suggested you need is about 10% for that, and Muslim populations in the West flirt with that number. Far fewer take up arms or willingly give their lives for the cause, but the number of Muslims who agree with them is much greater.

It's a century away, but unless these trends are reversed, Eurabia is a very possible future. By trends I don't mean immigration from Muslim countries (limiting that much more than we already do is counterproductive) but attitudes of Muslims towards their religion as well as, if at all possible, the contents of the religion and its holy texts itself.

McHrozni
 
The Don said:
Real dangers/imagined dangers - potayto/potahto :rolleyes:

Mark Steyn's recent career success has been founded on his pushing of the idea of Eurabia. To quote from wiki.
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First, did you listen to the talk? If you did then why not address what he said? I suspect you didn't. Don't use the tactic of the leftists and dismiss what he has to say without listening to it, and by picking up on what you see as the most damning issue from a quick Google.

The Don said:
Sounds distinctly alarmist to me - not least because it assumes a rate of growth of Islamic influence and population far beyond what is reasonable.
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If you want an even-handed view (not that I'm saying Steyn is not) read 'The Strange Death of Europe' by Douglas Murray. Not only does it lack to vitriol of other books critical of Islamification, Murray actually did the research and went to the countries involved and wrote from first hand experience. Again, don't take the leftist position of 'Oh, Murray's a..." whatever and put your fingers in your ears.
 
DragonLady said:
You do understand they're only "very nice Christian girls" in the eyes of those who are willing to see them that way, right?

You do understand there are plenty in this world who believe those girls should be put to death, right?

They're not joking. They're not just repeating dogma. They mean it.

"The wages of sin is death. If you sin, I'll kill you."

It's not a joke, and there is no compromise.
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My understanding is not an issue here. That said... I can't tell if you're serious or joking.
 
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